James Smyth Dublin

[kelsmell]

That great dathai I thought they could have had kids -

Williams Knowd & Margaret Martin were witness at Mary Ellen Smyth & Thomas Bagnall’s marriage.

From the info you provided, I’ve found that William Knowd was in Prison for a short time on the record  he’s born 1860 at Collage Lane so that adds up really well, also William Knowd Jr had a brush with the law for larceny his record said born 1882 Bray

Margaret Smyth married Thomas Martin 14th Oct 1855 Bray.

Margaret Martin (Nee Smith) could have been William Knowd aunt by marriage I will keep looking.

Gloucester St pops up quite a lot.

[rs2016]

Found this marriage while researching on the Bray microfilm 30th Oct 1881
William Knowd son of William Knowd and Kate McNally,9 South Gloucester St  to
Rosanna Martin dtr of Thomas Martin and Margaret Smith, 31 Hudson Terrace, Bray

the witnesses were James Smith and Ellen Smith of 9 South Gloucester St suggesting that Kate kept her Knowd and Smyth family together.

Ellen Smith  ? Mary Ellen Bagnall/Smyth ?

note that Rosanna's mother is Margaret Smith and the priest has written something in Latin after their names to do with dispensation.(possibly distantly related)

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633720#page/44/mode/1up

1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Townsend_Street/1311867/

1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Trinity_Ward/Townsend_Street/84655/

William died 1909
No 206 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05462/4528595.pdf
Rosanna Martin born 19th June 1860,Bray
possibly died aged 83 at 25 Clogher Rd 1951
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1951/04502/4183310.pdf

baptism and marriages
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jrp/

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jro/

Hi, just wanted to make sure, the kate you mention here is actually Catherine? who married Thomas smyth.

[rs2016]

found these baptisms at st Andrews with parents William smyth and ellen, Catherine 12th july 1832, Theresa 18th feb 1835.

So would look like Thomas was born either side of Theresa unless they were twins.

[rs2016]

could this be William and ellen's marriage?

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/165ea20418742?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dwilliam%26namel%3Dsmyth%26location%3Ddublin%26yyfrom%3D1831%26yyto%3D1831%26submit%3DSearch

[kelsmell]

Kate is Catherine that married Thomas Smyth.

The only record I have of William’s age comes from his burial record so depending on who registered him could very well be wrong out by a year or so.

As for William & Ellen It hard to say it the right people but there might be a link to Cath Smyth 1832 baptism her sponsor was Patrick Cotton, William & Ellen had a witness named Edward Cotton.

Their marriage record has a funny thing on it I just can’t read it in brackets after Ellen surname (maybe Latin)!

[dathai]

It maybe that one of them was protestant
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633482#page/90/mode/1up

[kelsmell]

If you look at the next page there’s a document to certify the marriage its signed by Rev. J.G.F. Schulze

From familysearch wiki -

During the period of 1806-1837, Rev. J.G.F. Schulze married over 6,000 Irish couples in his City of Dublin German chapel. Many of these recorded marriages were considered to be clandestine. These (mostly) marriages and a few baptisms may be viewed on the following Family History Library microfilm:  #101771 (item 1). 

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/County_Dublin,_Ireland_Genealogy

!

[dathai]

I had just found the same thing looks like half a marriage cert
http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/irish-roots-list-of-irregular-marriages-from-19th-century-dublin-published-1.2284467

[rs2016]

Just found a child for Thomas bagnall and mary ellen smyth, born may 9th 1887, just a week before she died.
 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02561/1947452.pdf