Author Topic: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851  (Read 4895 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« on: Friday 17 March 17 21:58 GMT (UK) »
Wondering if anyone can help decipher an 1851 census entry in Merthyr Tydfil.

Reference HO107, piece 2459, folio 644, page 44, Brecon Road, Merthyr Tydfil. 

I'm trying to work out the Harris family, halfway down the page.
David Harris, head, married, 31, shoemaker, Anglesey (I'm assuming that's what it says)
Ann, wife, married, 40, also Anglesey
Elizabeth 9, born Merthyr
Sarah 7, looks like Amlwch
Ann 4 ?? [my husband's 3rd great grandmother]
David 9 months ??

I can't find a marriage (there are a few), nor the children's births, even using the GRO index (no set of 4 children born to the same mother in Merthyr, and no Sarah in Anglesey - where Amlwch is).

Any suggestions gratefully received.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline osprey

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 March 17 22:16 GMT (UK) »
I think the children may have Glamorgan, Merthyr dittoed for all 4.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 March 17 22:20 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Osprey, as I can't find the births in Merthyr I was trying to see if the messy entry said anything else. Wonder where Amlwch came from, as it's far more specific than just Anglesey.

I'll have another check on the births in Merthyr, adding in Harries as an option, and Anne.....
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline osprey

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 March 17 22:52 GMT (UK) »
it could be that the births weren't registered.

Possible from 1841
Twynyrodin, Merthyr Tydfil HO107/1415/12 folio 11 pg 15
Thos Harris 50 sawyer
Hannah 55
David 20 shoe maker
Ann 15
Margret 13
Harriot 11
all not born in county

Hannah could be the visitor to David's family in 1851.

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 March 17 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Thanks osprey, that looks promising. I've been looking in 1861 but can't find any of them :(

I've just gone through the GRO index again, with variations, and have found births of Elizabeth and Sarah to a Roberts mother (and I have a possible marriage David Harris to Ann Roberts) but no Roberts mmn for an Ann(e) or David, nor any double in case Ann died and David re-married. 

Difficult family to find as daughter Ann Harris married John Coombes (many variations) in Merthyr, not yet found in 1871 and Ann died in 1874 aged 26 (also Merthyr).
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 18 March 17 15:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi Deirdre
there is a marriage listed for Powys (specifically in Vaynor) for 2 November 1841 between David Harries, shoemaker, resident at time of marriage in Heol y Cae; father Thomas Harries, sawyer. Ann Roberts, spinster, same residence as David, father John Roberts (also shoemaker).
Witnesses are John Roberts and Ann Harries
Mar
Surname Interests
Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 18 March 17 17:13 GMT (UK) »
Mar, that is brilliant thanks 😀.

Looks like the first two births are right then. Wonder why Ann and David don't appear to have been registered.  ???
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 18 March 17 17:45 GMT (UK) »
Deirdre
In the 1861 census there is (RG09/4052/35/22)
Harys Blawel Houses, 20, Penyrynys, Merthyr
David Harris Head Married Male 42 1819 Shoemaker Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Margaret Harris Wife Married Female 43 1818 Shoemaker Neath, Glamorgan, Wales
David Harris Son Male 10 1851 Scholar Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
John Harris Son Male 8 1853 Scholar Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales

Mar
Surname Interests
Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

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Offline MarMnkly

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Re: Harris family, Merthyr Tydfil 1851
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 18 March 17 17:53 GMT (UK) »
He is also on the 1871 census aged 53, born Caernarthen or Carmarthen (still a shoemaker) with wife Mgt aged 50 born Neath and children Jane (5) and James (3)
RG10/5401/72
Page 16
Surname Interests
Massey, Munkley, Powell, Thompson, Thurkettle

Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk