James Gardiner Born 1843 Glasgow Lanarkshire

[anne_p]

I have an idea who Margaret Ford may have been.

I cannot be certain but  am basing this on the 1851 census in Cambusnethan and the names of the children and her father who appear on it.
(Udston is an area that sits area between Hamilton and Blantyre)

Note
1st daughter named Lilly
2nd son named James


Margaret bears all the hallmarks of beiing a child born to James Ford and Lillias Russell
Their other children show place of birth as Hamilton and some of them also lived in Cambusnethan
James Ford on the 1851 return will be Margaret's father.
His age is about right


Bonkers because my relative married a son born to James and Lillias
I later discovered a bizzare link with his sister( another child of James and Lillias) to a completely different area of my tree.

[MonicaL]

I was just looking at that too, Anne. Thinking that James and Frances called their 3rd born daughter Lillias going by the 1881 census https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27W-H88X which again fits with Scottish naming pattern (see here for example as general guide www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm).

Monica

[anne_p]

James Ford and Lillia Russel had quite a few children

I hold info on just 2 of them.
Son named James bc 1812 and a daughter named Catherine bc 1815.

James Ford bc 1812 married the sister of my husband's ggg grandfather and I hold a large amount of descendant info for them

Another researcher that I shared info with is a descendant of James and Lillias and has info on others but he clearly never located  Margaret

[MonicaL]

Just further connections for the use of names for the children of James and Frances. They had a son Arthur https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9F5-1Y5

Andrew and Margaret also had a son Arthur. 1861:

Andrew Gardner 46 agr lab. b. Hamilton
Margaret Gardner 39 b. Hamilton
Lillias Gardner 20
Andrew Gardner 16
John Gardner 12
Janet Gardner 8
William Gardner 6
Alexander Gardner 5
Arthur Gardner 3
Margaret Gardner Under 11 Months

Address: 4 Camden St, Hutchesontown, Glasgow/Govan

Monica

[anne_p]

James Ford
Gender:   Male
Marriage Date:   24 Jul 1808
Marriage Place:   Hamilton,Lanark,Scotland
Spouse:   Lillias Russel

1841 Udston, Hamilton (property mistranscribed as Aldston)
Pat Ford   55
**Janet Ford   28
**Catharine Ford   25
**Agnes Ford   20
**John Ford   20
Anthony Ford   14
Richard Ford   10
William Miggins   8 Mo
Catharine Fagnan   15
Angus Fagnan   20
** are almost definitely children of James and Lillias.
Not sure if Head of household is named Pat or a mistrancription of James ?
Other than son James and  a little info on daughter Catherine, I haven't researched this family in any detail

1851 Cambusnethan

This is Catherine Ford, daughter of James and Lillias Russell
She married James Harvey   and appear on all census returns  in Cambusnethan until 1881

James Harvey   38
Catherine Harvey   37 Born Hamilton
Lilias Harvey   7
Janet Harvey   6
Catherine Harvey   5
Agnes Harvey   3
James Harvey   1
Helen Kallay   11


James Ford (snr)
1851 with daughter Margaret
1861 in Cambusnethan with unmarried daughter, Janet Ford.
1871 in Cambusnethan with unmarried daughter Janet Ford.

I am certain that James died in Cambusnethan/Wishaw in 1872

[shaun]

anne_p and MonicaL,

Thanks again this is all amazing.

MonicaL thanks for that really useful info on Scottish naming conventions. It really is an eyeopener and is making me think more and more that this is the right family that I have descended from. All of the childrens names as you say are matching these rules with only a couple of anomales.

The Arthur who is son of James Gardiner and Frances Saunders is the key to my family history as he is my Great Grandfather. So its great to learn that Andrew Gardiner and Margaret Ford also had a son named Arthur. another link that matches up.

Anne_p thankyou for the info of giving me Margaret Fords father. I have a Birth record of James born to Andrew and Margaret and it says James Ford was a witness. So that adds up for me too now. It also says William Gardiner was witness which must have been Andrews Father. And again explains why Andrew and Margarets first born son was called William.

Anne_p so how exactly are you linked to james and Lillias again?

[anne_p]

Shaun,

James Ford and Lillias Russell had a son named James bc 1812.
James (jnr) married in 1837.
His wife was Jean/Jane Struthers, the sister of my husband's ggg grandfather.

They are both found on census returns right up to  1891 in Shotts, Lanarkshire
( census taken on 6/7 March 1891)

When Jean/Jane died in Jul 1891, she was already a widow which means that her husband died between March and July 1891


In a completely different area of my tree, one of my own relatives married a widower.
I did some research on his 1st wife and found that she came from Aberdeenshire .
This couple married in Edinburgh.
The husband was a schoolteacher from Rutherglen, Lanarkshire where they subsequently moved to and where this woman died

In the course of this, I discovered that this deceased  1st wife had a sister, who was also also born in Aberdeen,
She too married in Edinburgh yet SHE married James Harvey who was the son of  James Harvey and Catherine Ford ??

[shaun]

Thats pretty awsome anne.

I love how so many peoples Family trees can cross over like that.

One thing that I am finding incredible is how many surnames will get linked to your family as you start delving deeper in. its incredible.

Ok so my next challenge is that I want to try and find out when my James Gardiner son of Andrew and Margaret made his move from Scotland to England. Maybe I will never know why.

I have him located in Kent in 1870 for his marriage. And in Scotland on Foulsykes farm as a 7year old. haha so it is somewhere between them two.

[anne_p]

Sometimes, we do come across odd connections like this.
As our relative married James Ford, I would not normally  do much research on his family or siblings.
My interests are with the children and descendants from this marriage because they share my husband's direct ancestry

However, my mind boggled at how 2 sisters from Aberdeen both married in Edinburgh.
Both married totally unconnected men, who came from opposite ends of Lanarkshire.

One married a man who connects to my own ancestry and the other to a man who connects ( by marriage) to my husband's ancestry