James Gardiner Born 1843 Glasgow Lanarkshire

[keyboard86]

Hi again,  just on the off chance of James Gardner showing as aged 26 b Scotland with wife Frances 18 and son Andrew aged 2 months ( mmn Saunders) residing at Street, Langfords Cottages, Wouldham,  Malling, Kent in 1871 census
Census ref RG10/916/108/29
Keyboard86

[Rosinish]

Hi unless shown elsewhere this family in 1851 census at Foulsykes Farm Cambusnethan :-

Andrew 36 b Hamilton
Margaret 28 b Udston
Lilly 10 b Parkhead
William 9
James 7
Andrew 5
John 2
All others b Glasgow
Janet 0 b Cambusnethan

Also in household is a James Ford 68 b Udston

Could this be the father born Uddingston (Lanarkshire)?

Would fit with Scottish naming pattern

Annie

[MonicaL]

The mother's name of Margaret would fit well with the names of James and Frances' children too.

1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27W-H88X
1891 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVHL-92M
1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9F5-1Y5

Monica

[shaun]

Thankyou so much for all of you help here guys,

This is amazing what you are finding out.

So the issue is, the only 100% fact I have is that James' father was called Andrew. (Which I learnt from Jame's Marriage cert)

I did find the family where Andrew Married Margaret Ford, and had a son called James, although this is only a hunch, because it was the only family I could find with the two matching names that has a 'similar' birth year to my James.

Ant this is what I am finding tricky, because I don't have an exact birth date for James, itis always 'abt 1844' or abt '1845' according to census returns.

I don't want to start delving into the world of Andrew Gardiner and Margaret Ford until I am sure they are the right family.

So I suppose that is where I need help. some tips to find out if I am looking at the right people.

thanks

[Forfarian]

Ant this is what I am finding tricky, because I don't have an exact birth date for James, itis always 'abt 1844' or abt '1845' according to census returns.

Bear in mind that the original census never gives even an estimated year of birth. You must be looking at a transcription which (mis)calculates the year of birth by subtracting the age in the census from the census year.

Always aim to check the original census to make sure that any errors are yours, and not some random transcriber's.

The 1871 census gives his age as 26
The 1881 census gives his age as 37
Can't find him in 1891 - maybe someone with access to a different index could
The 1901 census gives his age as 57 but with 50 crossed out
The 1911 census gives his age as 69 and birthplace Glasgow

So going by his age in the census he could have been born as early as 1843 or as late as 1852.

[shaun]

These are all of the dates and facts that i know are 100% correct.

James' Marriage Cert:

James Married Frances Saunders on 5th Oct 1870 and was residing in Frindsbury, Kent (This is the earliest record I have of James being in Kent)

James's Father was Called Andrew Gardiner and was a Salesman.

James' Death Certificate:

James died in Sep 1923 aged 79 Whilst living in The Green, Ditton in Kent

His daughter Margaret West was Present at death who was currently living in 39 Asylum Road in Peckham.

Census Returns

From 1871 until 1881 census they lived in Langford Cottages in Wouldham, Kent (also where Wife Frances was born)

1891 - 1911 Census Was living in The Green Ditton (where James Died)

James was labelled as being a Farm Labourer / Waggoner on farm / Carter of cattle on farm

on all of the census forms it says James was born in Glasgow, Scotland

So these are the points that could mean that the Andrew and Margaret Ford family are correct...

They lived at Foulsykes farm at some point which could connect with the fact that James was a farm labourer.

Andrew is marked as being a 'Dealer' which could link to my Andrew being a Salesman.

James birth date is 'Similar' but we cant say for sure is accurate. Andrew and Margaret Fords James was born 20th May 1843. Which doesnt comply with James Death Certificate of being 79 in Sep 1923.

and lastly that Margaret West was present at James death as daughter, so could have been named after her mother Margaret Ford.

So many people had similar names back then, and I really dont want to add these to my family tree until I am sure.

Once again thankyou soo much for all the response and time you guys have given me here, It's invaluable for someone like me who doesn't yet know what they are doing properly. I really appreciate it.

Shaun

[shaun]

Hi Forfarian,

on the 1891 census he is listed as being 49.

Yes that is what is strange, there is so many contradicting ages accross all of the census form, which is not helping tracking down an exact birth date.

thanks

[Forfarian]

The one whose mother was Margaret Ford does look right, but there's always a risk that there was another one whose baptism record has not survived. I'd probably go with the Margaret Ford one meantime, but with a small reservation in my mind.

[MonicaL]

This looks like the James we have been discussing, either his birth or christening:

JamesGARDNER - ANDREW GARDNER/MARGARET FORD - CHILD 3
20/05/1843 - ref 622/120 59 - Barony

Monica

Added: Sorry, think you have this already!