Author Topic: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne  (Read 563 times)

Offline skala

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Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« on: Monday 20 March 17 11:56 GMT (UK) »
We are trying to trace my Husbands Grandfather's life before the First World War. His name was Charles Trevor Bell and at the 1911 census he was living in the house of Harriet Bardsley a widow and his supposed Aunt at 2 Lancashire Street Newton Heath. Also in the house was a niece Flora Pollock a tayloress. Charles Trevor Bell was born in Nov 1882/83? in Newcastle Upon Tyne ,we have no information on this at all apart from his attestation records when he enlisted in the army in January 1915.He is shown on the census as a Motor Mechanic and this is his profession whilst serving in the army. He married 27th feb1915 Eliza LLoyd at Failsworth and they had two daughters Harriet (my husbands mother) and Matilda .He was subsequently killed in action on the 20th Dec 1916 on the Somme and is buried there. Eliza left with the two children continued to live in Failsworth. We have been unable to find out anything regarding Charles how he came to Manchester and what relationship Harriet Bardsley was to him.She was given as his next of kin on his attestation papers. Was the relationship through the Bardsley side of the family or through Harriets family the Goag family. Would be grateful of any information . 

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #1 on: Monday 20 March 17 12:03 GMT (UK) »
Who does the 1915 marriage name as his father and what was the fathers occupation - who were the witnesses
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Offline rosie99

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Offline rosie99

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #3 on: Monday 20 March 17 12:19 GMT (UK) »
1911 does not give a relationship to Harriet, though there is a relationship shown against the other occupant  :-\
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Offline Aulus

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #4 on: Monday 20 March 17 15:15 GMT (UK) »
I agree with Rosie: you need the marriage certificate to see what it says about Charles' father.

There are several Charles Bell births in and around Newcastle upon Tyne  c. 1883.

Harriet Bardsley was also at 2 Lancashire St in 1901.  In 1901 she reckons she was born c. 1844 (ie 5 years before what she says in 1911) in Miles Platting.  She's already a widow in 1901. Florence Pollock, a niece, is also with her, as is a presumably related Joseph H Bardsley, although he's just down as a boarder.

I've not been able to spot Harriet on the 1891 census, though Florrie/Florence Pollock is at Sheridan St, Manchester, living with her parents Alexander & Sarah Pollock.  Florrie is a trouser finisher.

I've not looked in any great detail, but the only likely entry on the 1881 census that I could see for Harriet (assuming she was already married by then, which I think would be likely) is with her brother-in-law John Yates, at 55 Lodge Street, Manchester.  She's already a widow.  John Yates' wife is Mary and his mother-in-law Harriet Gloag is also in the household.  That could mean that Harriet's maiden name is Gloag, and indeed there is a marriage of Hannah Gloag & Luke Bardsley on 15th June 1873 at St John's church in Manchester.  Luke Bardsley died Q3 1874.
Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

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Offline lancsann

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #5 on: Monday 20 March 17 15:34 GMT (UK) »
Harriet Gloag was a witness at the marriage of Alex Pollock & Sarah

Offline skala

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 March 17 11:28 GMT (UK) »
Thank you everyone for your replies. Charles Trevor Bell married Eliza Bell at St Johns Failsworth on 27th Feb 1915and his father was shown as Charles Trevor Bell a Foreman.He was shown as living at 5Ann Newton Heath(no rd or st )My husbands mother Harriet had been born the previous November(before the marriage)Charles enlisted in January 1915 and showed on his attestation papers that his age was 32 and 2months which would make him born in November  1882.He was home on leave and married in Feb 1915 and another child Matilda was born the following Feb1916.When he joined up his next of kin was shown as his Aunt Harriet Bardsley living at Lancashire St Newton Heath. These details of his next of kin were never altered and I would presume proved disastrous for his poor wife Eliza as the notification of his death in December 1916 were sent to Harriet Bardsley in January 1916.Eliza not only had a small child but was expecting another child also Christmas and not to know of her husbands death until weeks later must have been devastating. She then had to go cap in hand to the Army Pension Fund to prove her relationship and get some money.The Army wrote to Harriet Bardsley to retrieve the letter informing of Charles death and then sent this to Eliza.All this correspondence is with the Army Records that we hold. We have visited his grave in France we think maybe the only ones ever to do so. We know nothing else about him. I have tried to match him up with Newcastle Upon Tyne census the only one I think could match up is the 1901where he is shown at 69 Harbottle  st  Byker in the house of Mary E Boyd. He is shown as a Carter. This might fit in with the fact he became a Motor Mechanic eventually? He drove a lorry in 1911 for a Printers in Manchester and he followed this  occupation in the Army. If we are led to believe his Aunt was Harriet Goag/Bardsleythen it would be via brothers or sisters of either Harriet or her husband Luke. The only other information we have from family is that he had a brother Robert. Everything seems to be quite elusive about Charles as if he didn't want anyone to know about his previous life. Even Eliza my Husbands Grandmother never told him anything about Charles and the family thought he had died at Gallipoli.
Maybe because he went to Egypt first before being then sent to France. All a bit strange???

Offline skala

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 January 18 14:28 GMT (UK) »
After reaching a brick wall trying to find out more about Charles Bell in Newton Heath I decided to try the Newcastle upon Tyne area for any clues. I had him on the 1901 census living with Mary E Boyd as a lodger at 69 Harbottle st Byker. He was a carter, which falls in line with his later occupations as lorry driver ,Motor Mechanic(Army records) .Mary E Boyd was married to Christopher Boyd b 1873,he was living in the house of his brother John George Boyd in 1901 .From other postings regarding the Boyd family on this site I understand that this family had a cousin also called John George Boyd who was married to an Elizabeth Bell. At the 1901 census John George ,wife Elizabeth nee Bell and Elizabeth's brother Richard Bell were living at 48 Chapel St. With this information I think there is a definite connection between the two families and when I check back on the census' for the Bell family I find a George Bell b 1858 married to Annie Trotter with children Elizabeth b 1880,Charles b 1883,William b1886,Thomas b 1888,Robert b1891 and Richard b1893.Having contacted Newcastle On Tyne Register Office some years ago regarding a birth cert for Charles The only one they could suggest near enough to be viable was Charles Bell son of George and Annie Bell nee Trotter born 2/11/1883.Is this then the connection that I have been looking almost 50years for? Another similarity is that My husband remembers a family of Boyds living near to his Grandmother in Failsworth .How his Grandfather came to have moved from the Newcastle area to Newton Heath then Failsworth will I suppose remain a mystery unless we find otherwise.He was living with Harriet Bardsley in 1901 who according to his attestation papers for the army was his next of kin and an aunt.Her maiden name was Gloag so maybe she had connections to the Newcastle area? If anyone can help me further I would be so grateful.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Bardsley /Bell Newton Heath/Newcastle upon Tyne
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 09 January 18 18:03 GMT (UK) »
Just trying to get the information straight in my head  ;D

Charles Trevor Bell -abode 2 Lancashire Street, Newton Heath, Manchester attested January 1915 age 32yrs 2 months.  Next of kin Harriett Bardsley of the same address. - relationship Aunt.  His place of birth Newcastle.

1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW1J-HMK

1901 boarding with Mary E Boyd (age 23 bn Newcastle)
Charles Bell age 19 Cartman bn Newcastle on Tyne
RG13 / 4791 f139 p20
(Mary E Hawkins married Christopher Boyd in 1895)

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk