Are Caroline Emma Willis and Caroline Rebecca Willis the same person?

[emeltom]

The 1851 Census has two of Thomas and Mary's children as Mary A born 1845 and Thomas born 1847. The 1861 Census also has Mary A and Thomas althought the birth years are one year out. A check on the GRO site gives all the children in both Censuses the mmn of Finn so it must be the same family.

Emeltom 

[panda40]

The family that emelton has found is Caroline's parents.
This Caroline has the middle name Emma
The Caroline on the marriage certificate states Caroline with the middle name Rebecca. Both Carolines give the fathers name as Thomas. Everything matches up completely apart from the middle name. As I am in the process of locating this complete line of my tree owing to a previous error I have only recently found I want to make sure I have the right people. Did she just change her middle name? I can not find any obituary notice for either Caroline or har husband John. It looks like they both died in 1905.
Regards panda

[panda40]

I have left this for a day and tried to unravel the mystery further. I have listed all the children below with the relevant details I know so far
Emily Jane DOB 1868 MMN Pilcher baptism St Mary's Dover parents listed John and Caroline Rebecca

Robert William DOB 1870 MMN Willis baptism St Mary's Dover parents listed John and Caroline Rebecca. Robert died 1871.

Henry William DOB MMN Pilcher baptism st Mary's Dover parents listed John and Caroline

Alfred John  DOB 1875 MMN Willis baptised Eythorne parents listed John and Caroline Rebecca

Charles Frederick DOB 1878 MMN Willis baptised Alkham parents listed John and Caroline Rebecca
The other children were all baptised in Buckland or River Church. In all cases fathers occupation is given as a labourer.

Question 1 Why was Caroline Rebecca identified as the mother of two children with different mothers maiden name?

Question 2 Why do these children appear in the family but not in cronalogical order together?

I have order the birth certificates for Emily Jane and Charles Frederic so I can compare the information from these with the facts listed avove.

Thanks panda

[groom]

Looking at the children's details I wouldn't say they are the same family with different mother's maiden names. Could they be cousins? It will be interesting to see what the certificates say.

[panda40]

I have now received the two birth certificates for Emily Jane who was the first born and my great great grandfather who was the seventh child in the family. I have not managed to locate a possible marriage between a Caroline Pilcher and a John Chapman.

I would appreciated any help with this mystery.
I have attached both birth certs for you to compare.

Regards Panda

[groom]

Look at the certificates it looks as if it could be two different families:

Emily Jane Chapman  15th March 1868
born: Charlton (Dover)
father: John  occ Seaman
mother: Caroline formerly Pilcher

Charles Frederick  15 May 1878
born: Alkham (Dover)
father: John  occ labourer at St Mary's Cemetery
mother: Caroline Rebecca formerly Willis

However, looking at the censuses John in both cases was born Woodborough Kent. Doesn't make sense at all does it?

I wondered if perhaps the first Caroline had died, but there are no deaths that I can see.

[emeltom]

I have come across births where the children are all issue of the one couple but some have the mother's maiden name and others have the surname from her first marriage. For example  a Richard Balderson married an Elizabeth Willan, a widow. Some of the children have the mmn as Willan and others have her true maiden name of McGuire.

However I cannot find a Pilcher/Willis marriage to support that theory.

The two occupations of Seaman and Labourer don't help either but perhaps once the children came along he gave up going to sea, wasn't qualified for anything else so became a Labourer.

The fact that his pob remains constant definitely implies it's all one family.

Emeltom

[panda40]

Thanks for your replies. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is finding this confusing.
Emily Jane was baptised at St Mary's Dover on June 7th. Her father is listed as a mariner so this ties in with the occupation of the father on the birth certificate. Mother is clearly listed as Caroline Rebecca. So somewhere between the birth and the baptism the mother's maiden name changes.
That doesn't not explain how the second child has Willis as a surname and the third child has Pilcher. Unless they are from a different family.
Regards panda