John Murray - Seaman, Merchant Service, Living in Stirling, Scotland

[Rosinish]

This has established they weren't married as I said.

This is the most likely death from what info. you've provided although I can't say for sure it's your man & you would need to view it.

MURRAY JOHN
29
1925
041/MR 33
MARINE RETURN

Annie

Added, On 2nd thoughts, thinking his occupation was Seaman (Merchant Service) then I think the other one to be more appropriate as I was concentrating on the 'Seaman' previously i.e. this one should apply to Merchant Service...

MURRAY JOHN
25
1926
053/AF 102
Service Returns

[Scottish Janealogy]

Marine Return - death on British registered merchant vessel, person usually resident in Scotland.
Service Returns - deaths at military bases abroad, HM Forces or families. Much less likely to be the correct John Murray.
See https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/statutory-register-deaths#Background

Wouldn't rule out possibility that "died at sea" was a fiction to cover the truth. 

[Rosinish]

Thanks Jane....,

And yes, a cover-up wouldn't be the 1st  but until the death is viewed we won't know?

I haven't actually seen one of those types of death recorded so far in my own research i.e. not sure of what info. to expect but I would assume the 'usual' address would be recorded 

Maybe someone can enlighten me on that 

Annie

[Scottish Janealogy]

These are generally less informative than the usual Scottish death records with no parents' names for example. Last place of abode is included which might be a full address or just a town. Later records better for full address. Nationality column sometimes gives actual place of birth eg Aberdeen or Orkney.  Ship's name and the person's occupation are included.

Some information here https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/article/deaths-scottish-seafarers

[muriellecampbell]

My husband and I agree that there is a possibility that John Murray could have deserted from his ship and had another life somewhere and possibly a  new family.  But John Murray would have been alive in July 1925.   He was 29 in 1925 (would that Marine Return year be when he died).  What does 041 indicate?  Is the MR33 when the death was recorded possibly March 1933?  I'm sure there will be many more questions to ask.  I too will try the sites on Scotlandpeople and let you know how I make it.

[Rosinish]

John Murray would have been alive in July 1925.   He was 29 in 1925 (would that Marine Return year be when he died).  What does 041 indicate?  Is the MR33 when the death was recorded possibly March 1933?

Hi Murielle,

MURRAY JOHN
29 (Age when died)
1925 (Year died)
041/MR 33 (Registration No. for 'MR' Marine Return)
MARINE RETURN

There's no way of knowing the exact date in 1925 without checking the cert.

Hopefully it's your man as it would tie up that loose end 

Annie

[rosie17]

Thanks Jane....,

And yes, a cover-up wouldn't be the 1st  but until the death is viewed we won't know?

I haven't actually seen one of those types of death recorded so far in my own research i.e. not sure of what info. to expect but I would assume the 'usual' address would be recorded 

Maybe someone can enlighten me on that 

Annie

Hi Annie I have only seen one of these certificates and the usual address was added for the person lost at sea

Rosie

[Rosinish]

Thanks Rosie,

I had a feeling but always good to have these things confirmed for future ref. 

At least when we know what we can expect it doesn't put us off as it can either confirm or eliminate rather than leaving us none the wiser 

Annie

[Rosinish]

I am looking to find more information on John Murray, Seaman with the Merchant Service living at 66 Cowane Street, Stirling in 1925.  It is very difficult for me to find John Murray and his ancestors as we do not have a birth date, marriage date or death date)

Murielle,

I'm wondering without the above info. how you know the age of John, "29 in 1925"?

Annie