Author Topic: Testament from the 1600s  (Read 1298 times)

Offline WillowG

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Testament from the 1600s
« on: Wednesday 22 March 17 19:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi!

I am really hoping that somebody that can help me :) I think I have deciphered most of it, but this part has me stymied. In addition, it is a kind of perplexing and important part!

Thank you on beforehand :)

Adding a second screenshot as I thought the first was a bit blurry.

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 19:35 GMT (UK) »
Hello Willow, and welcome to Rootschat.  It would help if you could post a larger piece of the document, so that we can tell the context of the passage, and get the 'feel' of the hand.

Kind regards
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline arthurk

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 19:54 GMT (UK) »
Yes, a bit of context would help, but in the meantime I'm wondering about "sonne of my Nephew". My main doubt is that there isn't much of a descender on the "p" of Nephew.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline WillowG

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 20:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much!

Yes, Sonne of my Nephew was my guess as well! But when I now post the next part, you will see how that does not make any sense at all :)

(Actually I would love to get this entire bit translated, especially the whole sentence I posted the snippet from, and a couple of the following, but I didn't feel like I could ask for too much to begin with!)

Now you see? :) The sentence reads to me:

"Item I give and bequeath to my cousin Thomas son of my nephew Edward" ... lol :)


Offline WillowG

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 20:23 GMT (UK) »
It wouldn't allow me to upload both snippets at the same time.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 20:34 GMT (UK) »
If the two extracts run together, it does seem to make sense:

"...my Cozen Thomas ___ sonne of my Nephew Edward ___ late of Marston..."

Unfortunately the testator couldn't remember their surnames, so spaces were left.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline WillowG

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 20:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi!

Sorry, yes, the two extracts do run together. They are from different pages.

Thank you so much for trying your hand at this :)

But how can he both be a cousin and the son of a nephew at the same time?

This has confused me all day long, lol :)

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 21:31 GMT (UK) »
At this early period, cousin could be used rather loosely for a wide range of relatives. 

The primary definition of cousin as given in the Oxford English Dictionary ...
1.
†a. A collateral relative more distant than a brother or sister; a kinsman or kinswoman, a relative; formerly very frequently applied to a nephew or niece. Obs.

Offline goldie61

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Re: Testament from the 1600s
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 March 17 21:34 GMT (UK) »
In the 1600s, and even much later, the term "cousin" did not necessarily mean the same as we would think now.
It was a loose relative term.

See this page about the use of the word in Shakespeare;http://www.shakespeareswords.com/cousin

Added: I see you typed quicker than I did Bookbox!  ;)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs