Author Topic: Phenice Gardiner  (Read 1001 times)

Offline MattD30

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Phenice Gardiner
« on: Sunday 26 March 17 17:59 BST (UK) »
I hope someone can help me with a small identification puzzle regarding my ancestor Phenice/Phineas Gardiner.

My ancestor Phineas/Phenice Gardiner was born in Hougham, Kent in 1666 and was the son of Phenias Gardiner and his [second] wife Anne [Martin/Martaine]. He had a sister [1667/68] and a brother John [1671] plus a half-sister Anne [born 1664 to Phineas' first wife Elizabeth Carter]

Phineas/Phenice [b1666] was married twice [both times in Canterbury], first to Johanna Church in 1692 and then to a woman named Alice about 1700. He had three children who were all born in Canterbury:

John born 1693
Anne born 1697 died 1719
Mary born 1701/02 - married Nathaniel Shrubsole in 1725

There is a burial at Canterbury (St Mildred) on 27 October 1720 and a Will and I am trying to which Phineas/Phenice these relate to. I originally thought that the burial referred to the Phineas who was born in 1666 as he was married there and that's where his children were christened. However in the will there is a reference to 'my wife Anne' so I now think it could be his father Phineas/Pheneas who based on the fact that he was married twice [both times in the 1660s] was probably born in the 1640s. He also refers to his son John and since the first Phineas is the only one I've found with a wife named Anne a son named John it seems likely to me that the will is his.

Does anyone else think this sounds like a reasonable interpretation of the evidence.

Matt

 

Offline pjm99

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #1 on: Monday 27 March 17 07:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,
It might help to identify the second death/burial/will. I can see one other, immediately:
(Burial) Phineas Gardiner, 29 Nov 1725, Herne (St Martin).
Having both events (especially a second will, although location may help) might help resolve the issue.

HTH
Peter
Allen, Brown, West - Berkshire
Caesar, Dicker, Lamden, West - Hampshire
Hicks, Martin, Masters - Kent, Middlesex
Hancox/Hancock/Hancocke - Warwickshire
Gardner - Devon
Traylen - Essex & Jersey

Offline MattD30

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #2 on: Monday 27 March 17 20:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,
It might help to identify the second death/burial/will. I can see one other, immediately:
(Burial) Phineas Gardiner, 29 Nov 1725, Herne (St Martin).
Having both events (especially a second will, although location may help) might help resolve the issue.

HTH
Peter
4

Hi Peter

Thanks for that. I hadn't come across this Phineas before. My Phineas lived in Canterbury where his three children were born. Does the burial give any idea of the age of the Phineas in Here? How far away is Herne from Canterbury?

Phineas certainly seems like an unusual name and these are the only two instances I've found of the name. It would have been useful if there were more details in the will. There is a Phineas Gardiner born in Elham in 1626 who originally I thought might be the father until I read this Will. Now, given that this will is dated 1720 it surely can't belong to the same person unless he was in his 90s when he died.

Based on the details I have I am inclined to believe this is the will of the first Phineas [who was probably born in the 1640s]. As I say it just annoying there are no other details in the Will to identify who the will relates to. The only other Phineas I've found is one who was born in Elham in 1626 who might be the father of the first Phineas in my tree.

Anyhow thanks for the info and I'll look into that one.

Matt


Offline pjm99

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 06:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,
The burial is basic with no other information. (Hopefully, I have attached the image.)
According to Parloc Herne is 5.6 miles from Canterbury.

Regards
Peter
Allen, Brown, West - Berkshire
Caesar, Dicker, Lamden, West - Hampshire
Hicks, Martin, Masters - Kent, Middlesex
Hancox/Hancock/Hancocke - Warwickshire
Gardner - Devon
Traylen - Essex & Jersey


Offline MattD30

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 19:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,
The burial is basic with no other information. (Hopefully, I have attached the image.)
According to Parloc Herne is 5.6 miles from Canterbury.

Regards
Peter

Hi Peter

Thanks for the details and the image. It's definitely something I'll need to consider and look into. As I said Phineas/Pheneas definitely an unusual name and I haven't seen any others.

Thanks again

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #5 on: Monday 10 September 18 16:23 BST (UK) »
I've been looking at the 1720 Will of Phenice Gardner of Canterbury again and spotted some interesting points.

In the Will he only names 2 people, his wife and a son (who is squashed in between lines).

The name of his wife looks like Anna whilst his son is named John.

Phineas Gardner who was born in 1666 had a son named John born in 1693 to his first wife Joanna Church.

My ancestor Mary Gardner was born in 1701/02 to Phenice and Alice Gardner.

The copy of the Will I have is the original and "Anna" night well be "Joanna" on closer inspection. If so then the Phenice who married Alice is obviously a different person.

If that's the case then who is the second Phenice and when/where was he born or married?

Are there any marriages for a Phenice Gardner/Gardiner (or Garner) to an Alice in Canterbury between about 1685 and 1702?

Alternatively are there any other christenings for Phenice Gardner between 1660 and 1690?

I'll post an extract from the Will later so that others on here can look at the name of the wife.

In the meantime I welcome any ideas.

Matt

Offline Dyingout

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 September 18 18:01 BST (UK) »
Only one that comes up on Ancestry
Is Phinnes Gardener b 1666
Bap 14/10/1666 Hougham Kent
Father Phinnes
Mother Ann

This was searching for a wildcard and Phineas, Phinice, Finnias , Phinnes
Dow/Dowe Norfolk and Suffolk
Mulley/Wilden Suffolk
Loome/lombe Norfolk

Offline MattD30

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 September 18 20:54 BST (UK) »
The following are two extracts from the 1720 Will of Phenice Gardner of Canterbury showing his wife's name.

The wife's name looks like it might be Anna but could equally be Joanna with a squashed "Ja" written together.

I'd be interested to know others think.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Phenice Gardiner
« Reply #8 on: Monday 10 September 18 21:08 BST (UK) »
Only one that comes up on Ancestry
Is Phinnes Gardener b 1666
Bap 14/10/1666 Hougham Kent
Father Phinnes
Mother Ann

This was searching for a wildcard and Phineas, Phinice, Finnias , Phinnes

Hi

That's the one I have a record of. It looks Phineas jnr may have married twice, firstly to Joanna Church and then to a woman named Alice.

I know that my ancestor Mary was the daughter of Phineas and Alice and was christened in Canterbury on 30 January 1702 however that is all I know of him. My puzzle is working out if Phineas was married once or twice.

I have found a reference for the registered copy of the Will so I will compare that with the original to see if it is any clearer.

Matt