Author Topic: 1791 Stow birth  (Read 1671 times)

Offline trish1120

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 30 March 17 15:15 BST (UK) »
This may be the Stow Robert;

1861 Census
Berwickshire
Robert Riddell, 69, born 1792 Stow, Midlothian
Agnes Riddell, 63
Hes a Doctor

The Ancrum Robert, Father Patrick, does not seem right to me as Robert/Jane dont name a Son Patrick

I tend to favour the Hobkirk Robert, Father Robert;
I just had a quick look but he seems to have Siblings;
ADAM 1798
GEORGE 1802
JANET 1804

I am no Scottish expert so others may have a better idea :)
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Offline Josephine

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 30 March 17 20:03 BST (UK) »
I found an Oxnam marriage for Robert Riddle and Jane Oliver 6 Jan 1817. So then I wondered if I could find Robert's birth. My original question about Stow was because there seemed to be only three possible births on SP - Robert Riddel born May 1791 in Ancrum, Robert Riddell born Nov 1790 in Hobkirk, and Robert Riddle born Dec 1791 in Stow. I don't think there's really any way of knowing which would be correct if any, but I was looking at the most-likelys.

pergamond,

I just want to point out that we can't always assume that the records that still exist today cover everyone we might be looking for. Some Presbyterian church records have been lost to damage or time; in other cases, some people belonged to other denominations (dissenting churches?), and therefore their records aren't necessarily available online. So, although you've found only three possible births/baptisms, there might very well have been more.

My apologies if you were already aware of this; it's something that tripped me up a bit when I was starting to research one of my Scottish families. I had to track several individuals with the same name, who were born at about the same time in about the same area, until I was eventually able to rule them out. As for my ancestor, I still haven't found a baptism for him, but I'm hoping there might be something in the kirk sessions whenever they go online. We live in hope.  :)

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Josephine
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Offline terianne

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 30 March 17 20:21 BST (UK) »
Yes nonconformist records can be a challenge - especially in the 1700s when they was still major disruptions & weather events - a lot of records are missing.  back then records were not regulated and depending on the churches/parishes to keep them and split in the church of Scotland in the 1800s didn't help  - the OPR is very patchy then nonconformist are concerned & official registration started 1855

Offline pergamond

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #12 on: Friday 31 March 17 10:56 BST (UK) »
Thank you all.

I would tend to agree with you Trish that the 1790 Hobkirk Robert, father Robert, is the most likely of the three possibilities. The siblings' names are carried on in the family too.

But as you say, Josephine, records aren't always in existence. So it really remains only as a possible birth. Still interesting though.

And I've had my original question about Stow very well answered! :)

Offline gmaxwell

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #13 on: Friday 14 April 17 21:00 BST (UK) »
Hi Pergamond,

Although it is vital to consider the possibility of non-conformist records and entries which are missing from the OPRs for other reasons, I believe in this case the OPRs do hold the answer to your puzzle.

I believe the parents of Robert Riddell were Peter/Patrick Riddell (Peter and Patrick are interchangeable forenames in Scottish records of this period) and his wife Betsy/Betty Scott, married on 25 May 1788 at Ancrum. This couple later moved to Oxnam and are buried in Oxnam Churchyard. (Transcriptions are available from the Borders Family History Society: http://www.bordersfhs.org.uk/BFHSMIAllVolumes.asp)

The only child found in the OPRs where both parents are named is Thomas (b. 19 Nov 1804, Oxnam). However, I believe we can add the following entries where only the father is recorded (although it would be good to check the original OPRs for further confirmatory evidence):

George, bap. 10 May 1789, Ancrum
Robert, bap. 13 May 1791, Ancrum
Margaret, bap. 9 Feb 1794, Ancrum
Peter, bap. 17 Jul 1796, Ancrum
Anne, bap. 12 Apr 1799, Ancrum
Margaret, bap. 11 Apr 1802, Ancrum
Jennet (Janet), bap. 15 Mar 1807, Oxnam

It would appear that Betty was still alive in 1841, when we can see her in the census at Cappuck, Oxnam Parish: http://www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79601011

She is still alive in 1851, where the census reveals she was born in Hobkirk Parish:
http://www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=80201027

I believe Jane Oliver's parents were Adam Oliver and Beatrix (Beatie) Smith, whose marriage is not recorded, but lived in Oxnam Parish. There seems to be the possibility that there was more than one  Adam Oliver in Oxnam Parish, but we do have the following children where both parents' names are recorded:

Thomas, born 4 May 1784, Oxnam
Charlotte, born 6 Jun 1785, Oxnam
William, bap. 12 Apr 1787, Oxnam

I believe we can almost certainly add Jean Oliver, father's name Adam Oliver only recorded, bap. 14 Jun 1789 at Oxnam to the above list. Jean and Jane are interchangeable forenames. Hopefully the original OPR will confirm a similar occupation and/or residence for Adam, father of Jean to the other children already mentioned.

The above parents' names for Robert Riddell and his wife Jane Oliver seem to fit well with their children's names listed in an earlier post above. The match of children's names Peter (1818), Beatrix (1822) and George (1828) seem such a good match with later census records that I have little doubt this is your couple.

Hope this helps,

Graham Maxwell

Offline pergamond

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #14 on: Friday 21 April 17 06:50 BST (UK) »
Thank you Graham for your contribution. :)

Offline Alexandrina

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Re: 1791 Stow birth
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 15:21 BST (UK) »
The Ainslie Riddells were from Jedburgh originally.
MURRAY NOBLE MOFFAT MACDOUGALL  LEES MCINNES  RINTOUL KENNEDY ANDERSON HALL KELSO REID BOWES STEWART LINTON GAFF LOWRIE  ELLIOTT  GRANT TURNBULL BURNETT STENHOUSE MONTGOMERY SWORD CARROLL DALGLEISH  Mostly of the Scottish Borders Selkirk & Melrose Temple Balantrodoch & Skye