Author Topic: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?  (Read 1748 times)

Offline saw119

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Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« on: Tuesday 28 March 17 11:26 BST (UK) »
This question popped into my head after reading the William the Conqueror thread the other day so I thought I would ask as I don't really know the answer myself. As I understand it surnames didn't become common until the later medieval period and it wasn't until the advent of parish registers in the late 16th century that people were required to have one. So, what can ancient words used as surnames tell us about our families? I have a very unusual surname, Woollen, that is only found in any numbers in South Yorkshire and Somerset. I've read all these websites saying the word is derived from a geographical location Woh Land and that it comes from very ancient Old English, some sites say pre 7th century. In many online dictionaries of Old English the meaning is given as Crooked,Bending or a bend, thus the surname means a curved piece of land. I often wonder how anyone acquired this surname in the late 16th century. Of course I know that my family may have been living/farming on the curved bit of land near where they lived but the word seems very old to have persisted into the early modern period and certainly nobody these days says let's go and have a picnic near that woh land over there :)
If anyone has any insights on ancient surnames I would love to hear them. Not necessarily my own but just generally, mine is simply used as an example.
Woollen and the variations thereof (Woolin, Woollin, Woolen etc) in the West Riding area

Offline jim1

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 11:52 BST (UK) »
I researched the name Lutwyche many years ago (the bearer believing it to be Hungarian/Polish) & found it was Old English. Broken down it means a ditch dug around a piece of land one would assume for drainage.
The area became known as the Lut-wich & when the Normans pinched it the new incumbent took the name.
The name has come down through the ages in various forms to the present day.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
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www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 16:33 BST (UK) »
All Threlfalls, Trelfalls, Treffalls, Threfoes,  Threlfords, and similar seem to have a common origin in a comparatively small area of  Lancashire, and so, ultimately, to be related, so that should be helpful in tracing back - but as in early records in that small area no-one seems to have said WHO they married, and to have shared use of a very few, very common first names, there's a real cat's cradle in the mists of time that no-one without a time machine will be able to sort out finally.
"Meanings" of the name presented over the years include being  from a clearing where thralls (serfs?slaves?) had settled, either as freed from subjugation or merely by hopping it, to various terms connected with harvesting(??), fording an unidentified stream (The Threl? - no, I think not). My money is on the scarpering serfs!
And as as far as I know there was only one big Threlfall who was "sirred" officially, in the Preston area, and thus likely to have obtained a Coat of Arms, I delight in the complex variations I've seen hanging on trees over the years, that'd probably give the College of Heralds apoplexy!
Perhaps as an escaped serf that's why I'm quite pleased never to have found any real Nobility Connections?
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 17:00 BST (UK) »
I love speculating about old surnames.

I've got a similar thing to you ThrelfallYorky, I have Wheldale's in West Yorkshire, Hull and Lincoln. The name is rare enough and seems to be based on a very small place just outside of Castleford. I assume the Hull and Lincoln Wheldale's migrated from that area but I can't prove it, if it happened it was before serious record keeping began.

I have a Leaf in my family tree and I like to imagine that this was a descendent of a Viking called Leif.

My husband has some Stranglemans in his family tree. I wish I knew what that was about.
;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
:-* My thanks to everyone who helps me, you are all marvellous :-*


Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 17:43 BST (UK) »
Nearly all surnames fall into four broad categories:  who's your father (Robinson); what you did (Fletcher); where you came from (Liversidge, to quote one of mine); and what you look like (Cruikshank) or were notorious for (Toplady).

As you say, until the late medieval period most people just had the name they were baptised with.  When there were too many Johns or Margarets in the village they collected a 'surname'.  That persisted in Wales until much later, and we all know of Jones the Post or Dai Brewery.

Perhaps the most interesting aspect is how surnames mutated as people moved around the country more, from the 18th century onwards.  Most couldn't read or write, and the only time their surname was written down was by the minister at a church rite.  Most ministers held a parish for decades, and established a regular spelling for the local families.  When a new one arrived, the minister made something up.  Spellings generally didn't settle until the late 1700s.

If you don't already know which county the odd-looking Smurfit or Woosnam came from originally, look them up ...  :D
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline Scribble1952

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 19:02 BST (UK) »
I didn't look att tree surnames  and meaning still I came across this post.
Having a " Purcell " various spelling include (persil)
and a "Waterhouse " I was looking at surnames in a different way
I shall now research the medieval meanings😁

Online coombs

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 20:44 BST (UK) »
Cattermole once spelt Cackamole and before that Cackyrmole.

Gosnold as Gosenoll.

Hiscock as Huscacke.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Bearcub

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 29 March 17 14:50 BST (UK) »
I love looking at surnames and how they may have originated.

My mum's family name is Lantaff.

She always assumed that the family must have had origins in Wales as it 'sounded' Welsh (even without a double L). She had been told that Lan-taff probably meant "The parish or settlement around the river Taff". She thought that her Father's family must have travelled from Wales to Cambridgeshire on the waterways as Ancestors were boatmen/lightermen and this is what I was expecting to find when I first started researching.

However, I can find absolutely no connection to Wales! (certainly not within the time of decent records anyway). The distribution of the surname Lantaff is almost exclusively linked to East Anglia (where my mum and her family came from). The name is actually believed to be Anglo-Saxon origin, and is a locational surname deriving from a place called Langtoft in Lincolnshire. This, in turn, was believed to have been named after 'the long toft', indicating 'site of a house', or 'deserted site', or in some cases, 'messuage, homestead'.

It taught me not to make assumptions and to take 'family stories' with a pinch of salt....

Offline Gone.

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Re: Old Surnames-What can they tell us about ourselves?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 29 March 17 19:17 BST (UK) »

Got £260 (Kindle) or £400 (hardcover) to spare? Last year the four volumes of  The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland was published with its claims ...

"This huge new dictionary is the ultimate reference work on family names of the UK, covering English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Cornish, and immigrant surnames. It includes every surname that currently has more than 100 bearers, and those that had more than 20 bearers in the 1881 census.

Each entry contains lists of variant spellings of the name, an explanation of its origins (including the etymology), lists of early bearers showing evidence for formation and continuity from the date of formation down to the 19th century, geographical distribution, and, where relevant, genealogical and bibliographical notes, making this a fully comprehensive work on family names."

All I've been able to do is gaze longingly at the images of the four volumes and wish I could look inside!