Harrison/Newell pickle or cross branch?

[Stanwix England]

Hello,

I've got myself in a bit of a tangle and I'm hoping you can help me out.

I think even just writing it out might help me make sense of this.

I'm an Ancestry subscriber and for those that don't have this service, Ancestry gives you 'hints' which are suggestions taken from their records that might be relevant to your relations. At the moment I'm working through hints for 1st cousins x times removed and Great Uncles and Aunts for example.

In working through my hints for a Benjamin Newell (sometimes spelt Newill) something funny popped up.

Currently on Ancestry he is described as being my 4th Great Uncle. The relationship line to me goes like this.

William Newill/Newell (b 1796) fathered children including.

Benjamin Newill (b 1840) and his brother Alfred Newill (b 1822)

Alfred Newill fathered Ada Newell (b 1856)

Ada Newell married and George William Harrison (b 1856)

They had a daughter called Gertrude Harrision (b 1899) from which my line is descended, I don't think the further details are relevant.

I hope you are still with me. I'm not even sure I'm still with me!

So in following up hints for Benjamin Newell/Newill I found a marriage banns record for 9 January 1875, to an Isabella Harrison. When I go to review this record, a hint box appears at the top which tells me that this record is already saved on my own personal tree to a Benjamin Newill (b 1848).  I am able to access the profile page for this different Benjamin Newill.

When I open up that page he is described in the relationships section as being the husband of my 3rd Great Aunt. The relationship line to me goes like this.

William Harrison (b 1832) has children including a daughter Isabella Harrison (b 1853) who marries a Benjamin Newill. He also has a son George William Harrison (b 1856) who marries an Ada Newell.

So if I've got this all correct, there are not in fact two separate Benjamin Newell/Newill's but they are in fact the same man. He is my 4th Great Uncle, because he is the brother of Alfred Newell who was the father of Ada Newell (so Benjamin's niece), but he is also the husband of my 3rd Great Aunt because he married Isabella Harrision, who was the sister of George William Harrison who married his niece.

Does that make sense?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

They may be different

On 1851 there is

Benjamin b c1840 chapel Allerton, son of Hannah [1841 shows his father to be William, a mason, b c1801]

Benjamin b c 1848, Leeds. Son of William, b c1826 Leeds, a mason and Margaret

Isabella's husband's age varies somewhat, which isn;t helpful!

[chempat]

Hints are only hints and need investigation as much as (or even more than) everything else.

They can easily imply 2 different people are the same. so you just need to work your way through all the connections testing each one and ignoring the hints.

When someone has made a mistake (e.g. wrong hint) it always takes longer to dismantle and disprove than just following the facts.

However, I have also got a loop like your potential one in my tree, but not through a hint, I just recognised a name and place and realised that a connection already existed between my parents through second cousin marriages and siblings etc.

[libby9]

Benjamin Newill (b 1840)

So in following up hints for Benjamin Newell/Newill I found a marriage banns record for 9 January 1875, to an Isabella Harrison. When I go to review this record, a hint box appears at the top which tells me that this record is already saved on my own personal tree to a Benjamin Newill (b 1848).  I am able to access the profile page for this different Benjamin Newill.

As there's 8yrs difference in the birth years they could be two different chaps.  You need to search census returns and look for a BN born circa 1840 and one circa 1848. 

[libby9]

Name:    Benjamin Newell
Birth Date:    8 Sep 1848
Baptism Date:    8 Oct 1848
Baptism Place:    Leeds, St Peter, Yorkshire, England
Parish:    Leeds, St Peter
Parents William and Margaret
*father William a paper stainer.

Name:    Alfred Newill
Birth Date:    13 Jan 1822
Baptism Date:    3 Feb 1822
Baptism Place:    Chapel Allerton, St Matthew, Yorkshire, England
Parish:    Chapel Allerton, St Matthew
Parents William and Hannah
*father a mason

Name:    Benjamin Newell
Birth Date:    2 Jul 1839
Baptism Date:    22 Sep 1839
Baptism Place:    Leeds, St Peter, Yorkshire, England
Parish:    Leeds, St Peter
*father a mason

Looking at the above baptisms, and having seen the marriage on Ancestry which describes Benjamin's father as a mason, it is looking like his age is wrong on the marriage cert, but there's more searching needed to be sure.

[libby9]

I appreciate you may have all the info I'm posting, but it helps to have details written to the thread.

In 1871 Benjamin and his widowed mother, Hannah, are living at 45, Potternewton Lane; William Harrison, wife Elizabeth and children are at number 42, I think he's the father of Isabella, who married Benjamin, as his occupation is delver (as on Benjamin and Isabella's marriage cert.)  Isabella is not with her parents, but she is with them in 1861 named Isabel.

1871 RG10; Piece: 4576; Folio: 79; Page: 38
1861  RG 9; Piece: 3357; Folio: 132; Page: 3

[libby9]

Occupations and names do seem to suggest that these people are all connected.

George William Harrison 21, delver, Potternewton, father William stone wall dresser
Ada Newell 20, Potternewton, father Alfred a mason.
Witnesses: Fora? Newell and Elizabeth Ann Kilbank?

My conclusion is Benjamin's brother in law George William Harrison, did marry Benjamin's niece, his brother's daughter, Ada.

[libby9]

My gggrandfather's niece (his sister's dau), married gggrandfather's brother in law (his wife's [my gggrandmother] brother). So, my gggrandparents niece was also their sister in law, These people all lived in Leeds too.

[Stanwix England]

Hello,

Thank you so much everyone for all your help. Seeing the information written out again does help too. 

I've put this one on the back burner today as it was confusing me, but this is a really great help.

It does seem like they were part of a tight knit community with similar professions. Today I was looking at marriage records for a relative of mine from that same Leeds area, and a different relative (of mine, not his) was his witness. So it seems that I'm dealing with people who lived close together and probably knew each other, or at least knew each others families.