help please in fining a link between two Thomas Chasmers

[godfreychas]

My 3rd great grandfather was Thomas Chasmer.  My query is to find his DOB, place of birth or parents’ names.

He lived his adult life in the Bermondsey area.  He married Ann Robertson, a widow born Willis, on 3dec1810 at St James, Paddington.  Ann was born on 11feb1776 in Bermondsey.
Thomas died on 16oct1834 and was buried on 26oct1834 at St John Horsleydown Bermondsey.  The death certificate gives his age as 55.  So if this info is accurate he was born between 16oct1779 – 15oct1780.
Thomas and Ann had four children but none of their birth or marriage info gives any guide as to Thomas’s birth details including Sarah Ann’s which was registered at the Protestant Dissenters' Registry.
Thomas was convicted of larceny and amongst the court documents is one dated 5oct1821 which gives Thomas’s age as 41.  If this is accurate then his birth dated was between 5oct1780 – 4oct1781.
So from the calculations from the death certificate and larceny document there is a DOB between 5oct1780 – 15oct1780.
There is little evidence of Chasmers in Bermondsey before the 19c.

However, there is a large group of families in and around the Benenden and Tenterden areas of Kent from the 1500s onwards.  The name CHASMER is often recorder as CHASMAR and other variations.

There is a Thomas CHASMER the son of Thomas Chasmer and Ann Primer who was baptised on the 11may1781 in Benenden.  I can find no other life information on this Thomas (his DOB, marriage, death etc).  So he could have been born in the window of dates I have for the Thomas in Bermondsey.  In both cases there is no mention of another Christian name.

Thomas of Kent has siblings but Catherine was the one born before him having been christened on 11feb1780.  Catherine was buried on the 19feb1780 so it is possible that the birth was shortly before the christening.  So this does not discount Thomas being born between 5oct1780 – 15oct1780 although the dates are tight.

So back to my query.  Can anyone help finding info to link these two Thomases or to find birth information on the Thomas of Bermondsey.

[Jomot]

Whist I can't say whether the Thomas baptised in Benenden is the same man who died in Bermondsey, I do think you need to bear in mind that birthdays did not hold the same significance in the 17th & 18th centuries as they do now, and as such many people did not accurately know their precise date of birth. 

The baptism of his sister Sally on 14 Aug 1788 has the added note "poor", and it's therefore possible that Thomas was apprenticed out by the parish overseers.  Ideally these apprenticeships were to another parish so the child would gain Settlement elsewhere and his original parish would have no further financial responsibility for him.

I'm not sure if the Charles Chasmer buried in 1792 in Benenden is Thomas's brother, born 1783, but if it is then this also has the note 'poor'.

You may be fortunate and find something in the overseers records for Benenden:

http://www.kentarchives.org.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=P20

[godfreychas]

Thanks for the reply - it is most helpful.  I have made arrangements to travel to Maidstone where there overseers record are held to see what I can find.

[hanes teulu]

The Thomas Chasmer baptism 11 May 1781 is the "Benenden Parish Church" (FindMyPast transcriptions)

The newspaper report of Thomas' 1821 trial describes him as " ...preacher to a numerous Methodist organisation ..." and Sarah Ann's baptismal denomination is described as "Dissenter".

Was the 3 Dec 1810 marriage at Paddington nonconformist?



 

[godfreychas]

The Pallets record states ' Paddington' but no mention of non-conformist.

It reads:
Robertson Ann
S C (?) Mary Mag Bermondsey
Thos Chasmer

and then someone else has printed PADDINGTON 1810.  Who do I send you a copy?

[Jomot]

Was the 3 Dec 1810 marriage at Paddington nonconformist?

In 1810 the only valid marriages were Church of England, the only exceptions being for Jews & Quakers. 

Added:  The marriage was by licence, so that would potentially support him being non-conformist as otherwise banns would have had to be called in church for the three Sundays preceding the marriage.

However, I wouldn't discount the Benenden baptism just because it's C of E - he had no choice in how & where he was baptised, but was free to chose his own religion as an adult.

[godfreychas]

What does the reference to Paddington mean if the church where they married was in Bermondsey?

[Jomot]

The marriage was at St James, Paddington:

Thomas Chasmer of this Parish, Bachelor and Ann Robertson of the Parish of St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey in the County of Surrey, Widow, were married in this Church by Licence this third day of December One Thousand Eight Hundred and Ten by me Jos: Pickering, Curate.

This marriage was solemnised between us Thomas Chasmer & Ann Robertson (both signed)
In the presence of Hannah (?) Kimberley & Ann Brown (both signed)

[godfreychas]

I have been reading again your helpful comments.  As I say I will travel to Maidstone to look at the overseers records in the Kent archives.  Is there any thing else you can suggest I do to try and track down a link between these two Thomases?