Illegitimacy 18th century gentry

[WillowG]

The Georgians were crazy, yo.

I think all of your conclusions seem very sound.

Honestly, he sounds as if just the sort of young man who would have been expelled from Cambridge 

He could have failed his exams, gotten bored, been embroiled in some sort of scandal as you suggest ... Sadly I do not know how to find out any of this with certainty, so I pass that ball over to someone else

But then again him getting a degree may not have necessary unless he was planning to actually use it for something ... Some profession.

Cambridge may just have been a place to render polish and make connections. *shrugs*

If you wanted to post Mary's full name here (and she dies in 1788, yes?) and where in the country she lived, or send me a direct message, we, or alternatively just I, could take a stab at it.

You needn't post the main family details, just Mary's.

[wildwitch]

I have been unable to find a marriage for him full stop and he had a very unusual name and he mentions no wife in his will (although such a wife could have been dead by then). Mary's full name was very common, so anything is possible sadly. I have no clue who she was, so a baptism for her will be impossible to find. Now here is where I hit a wall again: Her surname was White! We have the previously mentioned letter by James Wright of Bushy Park in 1788. She is always though referred to as White, but could very well have been a Wright. I would love to know who this James was!! Indeed he may only have visited Bushy Park and could have completely have been her relative! The estate in the 1900s eventually went to the Wright family, who it is said were related to our/this family. Now here is the problem I cannot tell how they were related and the connection I feel lies with this generation i.e. White=Wright (no standardised spelling)! The Wright's who inherited the estate in the 1900s were from Anston Hall Sheffield, but I haven't managed to link them up to my family. I recon Mary was born between 1720-40, simply by looking at when she had children, so if anybody can connect such a Mary White/Wright to the family from Anston hall and even better find the James into the bargain I would be ecstatic.

[sallyyorks]

I am completely lost 

Hi
I am currently researching an ancestor who was a member of the landed gentry (esquire). He inherited his impoverished estates at the age of 36 in 1748 from his parents, when he was still unmarried. Indeed it seems he never married at all.

He may have married but the record has not survived

In 1756 his son (and heir) was born, but the baptism has not yet been found. His only other child, a daughter was born in 1764. Her baptism clearly shows her to be illegitimate, she was recorded as his daughter and the mother had a completely different surname and there is no mention of wife.

Sometimes in the register, the mothers maiden name is recorded. I have seen two instances of this in my tree in Yorkshire at the same time period. They were married but the mothers forename and maiden name was recorded, alongside the fathers, but not in the married name.
Does the baptism actually state in words that the child is illegitimate?

It appears he had a mistress by this stage. Letters have survivd that later show that she must indeed have been the mother of both of his children. He made his will in 1776 and refers to her not as his wife (indeed he never mentioned a wife) but as Mrs and by the name previously recorded at the daughters baptism and he adds the comment 'To Mrs...who currently lives and resides with me'.  The woman in question died in 1788 and was buried as his wife, even though there is no trace of any marriage.

In what context was she recorded 'at the daughters' baptism? What is the exact wording and where was it?
'Mrs...who currently resides with me' could be anyone. A housekeeper, a relative.
What do you mean by 'buried as his wife'? Is this in the register or on a gravestone?

...Indeed a letter from the time period shows that she was well respected amongst his friends and that her daughter nursed her. He died in 1789 and left his estate to his son and made a substantial bequest (£10000) to his daughter too. Now my question really is how does a member of the gentry get away with having a mistress and then manages to leave the estate to his illegitimate children? I thought as illegitimate children they would have had no right to inherit?

A lot of men had a mistress and not just the 'gentry'. I am not sure it would have been any big deal at this time period. There was also a lot of illegitimacy in all social classes
It would be his own affair who he left his money to. Anyone could inherit money

I am assuming the son was baptised in private somewhere so that his illegitimacy was more difficult to prove?

Unlikely
He may have been baptised but the record has not survived or is not available.

How would they have been seen within society and would he have been able to say make her out as his wife without them being married? I', assuming the Mrs suggests that she was already married and I am assuming she was from a lower social class. I am also wondering whether he deliberately didn't marry her because he hoped to do better still since his estate was impoverished.
I am a bit lost with this, any suggestions would be appreciated
thank you

They may not have been part of any particular 'society'. She could have been his wife, a mistress or a married woman. They may just have been close friends or relatives and might not have been having an affair at all.

Could you name all these people, with approximate years of births/deaths and what area this happened in. A timeline would make it easier to follow and also if you could give your sources for the information.

I think you and WillowG are making too many assumptions about these people. It is the mid 18th century, so records might be scarce, unavailable or not have survived at all.

[WillowG]

When you don't have evidence, speculation is all you have. And sometimes speculation can lead to evidence.

My immediate thoughts on the White/Wright idea - My immediate thoughts I do not think that that is the same name. A more common misspelling would have been Right, the sound of the two is not at all the same.

I almost had a laugh when I saw that the woman you were searching for was called Mary White I have too spent a lot of time searching for a Mary White! I know when she was born, I know where she was born, thanks to the censuses, but I could not find her christening or any sign of her parents for love or money. Eventually I found a Mary Wait. Everything fit, time, place. Unfortunately I also found her marriage to someone else at the same time as my Mary married, so sometimes the same name-different spelling way of thinking can actually lead you astray

I have actually experienced that in two other different cases too, and had to untangle the families afterwards.

My immediate thought: Mary may very well have been a Wright. James Wright writes like a cousin or an uncle or even a brother (or just a good friend). Mary Wright then marries someone named White. This marriage goes horribly wrong. He may have been a drunkard, violent, mentally ill, or they were completely incompatible in some other way. Common enough for the times.

They separate, and Mary ends up with your ancestor. Her first husband remains inconveniently alive, thus preventing the two of them from marrying.

[Old Bristolian]

Sallyorks is correct - some facts would not go amiss otherwise we are dealing with fiction!

[WillowG]

The first thing I found was a Mary Wright that seemingly would have fit perfectly:

John Wright, Esq., of Kelvedon, who m. 1714, Elizabeth, dau. of Robert Brooke, Esq. of Weston Underwood, co. Buckingham, who d. s. p. 19 June, 1718. He m. 2ndly, 1733, Constantia, dau. of Francis Carington, otherwise Smith, Esq. of Wooton Hall, Warwickshire, and Aston Hall, Shropshire, and great-granddau. of Francis Carington, Esq., brother of Charles 1st Viscount Carington, and had issue, John, his heir, b. 1740; and two daus., Mary, b. 1735, d. 1753; and Constantia, b. 1736, a nun.

https://books.google.com/books?id=H65CAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1553&lpg=PA1553&dq=James+Mary+Wright+Anston+Hall&source=bl&ots=ABezQDzmVk&sig=y7ZejcrsJ7AJ17RyHPQE8SRCcaM&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjX8bORzaTTAhUL4IMKHc8zDRsQ6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=James%20Mary%20Wright%20Anston%20Hall&f=false

But as we see, this Mary dies in 1753. Still, it might be worth the trouble to check to see if you can find that burial record for yourself, and that she did not marry somebody inappropriate or went to live with someone without being married instead. It all might be just a coincidence too and that these people have no connection to your family whatsoever. *shrugs*

Some Mary Wright-White marriages:

Mary Right who married Henry Waite on the 16th of May 1731 at Billinghay in Lincolnshire, England

Mary Wright who marries John White in 1733 in Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Mary Wright, spinster, who marries Edward White, a bachelor of Whitehead in Warwick, on the 12th of March 1749 at Southam (or Wormleighton ?) in Warwickshire, England

Mary Wright who married Leonard Whaite on the 4th of February 1750 in Lancashire, England

[WillowG]

Mary Wright, spinster, who marries Edward White, a bachelor of Whitehead in Warwick, on the 12th of March 1749 at Southam (or Wormleighton ?) in Warwickshire, England

This was wrongly transcribed, looking at the original, it clearly says Edward Whitehead of Bradwell

[WillowG]

More about the Wrights of Aston Hall:

"He had a son, Francis, the second Baron, who left no issue, and the estates passed to Constantia Carington, a grand-daughter of Francis Carington, brother of the first Lord Carington. [She was daughter of Francis (son of Francis, brother of the first Lord) by his wife Audrey Attwood. Burke's Landed Gentry gives her as 'Constantia of Aston, who inherited the family estates from her uncle William, last male heir of this branch' - ED.)

"Constantia married twice - first, John Wright, of Kelvedon, in Essex, who left a son, John Wright; and, secondly, Peter Holford, by whom she had a daughter, Catherina Maria, who married Sir Edward Smythe, of Acton Burnell, fifth Baronet, and died in 1831. In the year 1778 these two estates were held in undivided moieties by John Wright, the son of Constantia Carington, and Catherina Maria Holford, daughter also of Constantia Carington by Peter Holford; and in the same year, there was a division, and the Aston Hall estate passed to the Wright family, and the Wootton Waven estate to the Smythes of of Acton Burnell."

https://books.google.com/books?id=1O8GAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=aston+hall+shropshire+Wright&source=bl&ots=9jhELp_afL&sig=uF6sKx3PGFzKfmplzXVEYfTluZ0&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7q-r31KTTAhUhxYMKHdroBA4Q6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=aston%20hall%20shropshire%20Wright&f=false

So it would appear as if these were definitely your Wrights.

[WillowG]

I have been assuming that Aston Hall and Anston Hall were the same, because google kept giving me hits for both (*shakes fist at google*), but I see now that is not necessarily so.

Back to the drawing board.