Author Topic: Johanna Cremin  (Read 9906 times)

Offline Sinann

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 25 April 17 08:04 BST (UK) »
Careful with the links, your one is the following page.
This one http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632556#page/9/mode/1up
Timothy is number 80 and yes it is very faint.
I see it I can improve it.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #64 on: Tuesday 25 April 17 08:10 BST (UK) »
Not much better so I put a red mark next to it

Offline Sinann

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #65 on: Tuesday 25 April 17 10:03 BST (UK) »
I sometimes find entries of Foley families on ancestry and family search and they make note that the info was found in the O'Kief, Coshe Mang, Slieve, Lougher, and Upper Blackwater in Ireland volumes (in which I'm familiar with)

You may be familiar with it but I'm stumped, I haven't any idea what that refers to, can you give me a FamilySearch link that shows it.

The Foley's obviously got their children baptised but they don't seem to have been too keen on getting them Registered with the Civil authorities.
I'd have to check back through the thread but I don't think I found birth certs for any of them, there won't be any before 1864 as that was the year Civil Registration started.
They come under the Registration District of Kanturk, same as the Cremin's.

Those baptisms I did find are in the RC parish of Boherbue
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0021 (NLI)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jzm/ (Irish Genealogy)

Offline Sinann

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Offline foleygirl

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 25 April 17 15:39 BST (UK) »
I apologize for assuming that you were familiar with these books at this site. https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/259184?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I was first introduced to this collection many years ago while visiting the Salt Lake City, Utah Family History Library. Just guessing but I'm pretty positive that familysearch.org is affiliated with the genealogy library for it's all from the same religion compiling the info. This series of books, https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/259184?availability=Family%20History%20Library was put together by a group of people under the direction of the author who traveled to Dublin and copied all the Civil Records and Parish Records. These books are very expensive to purchase and are usually found at a genealogy family center. As there are about 20 sites in the US with these volumes, I'd feel that they must be in Ireland. Here's a site to check to see if they are in your area. https://familysearch.org/locations/

So when referring to these volumes as source of info found on other sites I was confused at not finding the same info when going to Irish Civil Records. The info came from Irish Civil Records in Dublin so I guess I felt stumped in finding info in a book that copied the info from Civil Records Dept. in Dublin. I was trying to send you links of what I had found but being a paid genealogy site, I was not able to copy and send,.....So I went to free sites to find the same thing (but couldn't find it) to send to you. Have I confused you even more? I'm sorry if I have. It just seemed like both sources would have had the same info.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday 25 April 17 16:00 BST (UK) »
They should all be the same records, no matter what site or resource you use.
Can you give me an example something you found in that set/book but couldn't find on the other sites.

I can see Kilkeem(Duhollow Barony) listed on that link, this is a variant name of Boherbue Parish.

Offline foleygirl

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 26 April 17 00:37 BST (UK) »
You had asked for an example of my question asked in an earlier reply of a family members info found at a source but when going to the source I could not find a match.

Here's an example; On one site I typed in Julia Loughnane and a baptism record came up for her but all it listed was her name, female, birth about 1818, place of event in Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland, and spouse listed as Timothy Foley.

Under the info stated above was a source which read;
Albert Eugene Casey, Eleanor L. Downey-Prince, and Ursula Dietrich.. Index of O'Kief, Coshe Mange, Slieve Lougher and Upper Blackwater in Ireland. 16 vols. Birmingham, Alabama: Knocknagree Historical Fund, 1952-1971. Found at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah under book call number 941.5 D2c Index, and under the following microfilm: 823801 (vols. 1-2); 823802 (vols. 3-4); 823803 (vols. 4-5); 823804 (vol. 7); 823805 (vol. 8); 823806 (vols. 9-10); 823808 (vols. 11-12); and 823809 (vols. 13-14).
 The cover title notes that this compilation contains the what, when and where for the sixteen volumes on counties Cork and Kerry containing 30,000 pages, 3,000,000 personal names (indexed in each volume) with number maps of townlands, parishes, baronies, and counties. Not all of these entries have been included in this compilation at this time. However, the most important collections have been noted in the annotations below for use by researchers in pursuing additional investigations.
 Volume 1: Baptisms of Rathmore Parish 1837-1874, including the parishes of Nohaval and Kilcummin, with a laçuna in the records from March 1841 - January 1844. It is said that an older parish register came to pieces and disappeared. The first available register is the one just noted. There are missing pages and many names are almost illegible. This is true thoughout the records of this collection.
 Death records from several places in County Cork and County Kerry, not recorded in this electronic collection.
 Volume 2: Births, Marriages, Deaths, Barony of Duhallow; Births, Christenings 1833-1864, St. Mary's Roman Catholic parish, Boherbue. County Cork., 2:369
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------

Please note that the above book, microfilm, and information is free to the public at designated Libraries throughout America and other genealogy centers throughout the world. The Salt Lake City, Utah Library offers microfilm to view actual handwritten documents from the volumes of this book mentioned above. Like I had shared in an earlier reply,.....the author and individuals under his direction had gone to Dublin and recorded all the info from Civil Records and Parish Records.

(Remember me sharing that all the documents I've found about Jeremiah Foley always listed him as Jeremiah but then I found him listed as Timothy at two sites along with many errors of names after that.)


I then went to https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/captcha.jsp
which takes you to civil and parish records and typed in, Julia Loughnane with the exact info that I found on the other site but nothing came up.  I then broadened the year date to search for either birth, marriage, or death and the response came up with nothing. There was not even one Julia Loughnane entry brought up.

So this is what has confused me for I've found this to happen often when making searches. The book mentioned above were copied documents from Civil and Parish records at Dublin so I'm confused when the book and the agencies don't match.

I hope you can find a library that hosts this book and its microfilm for it's a wonderful tool in researching family.



Offline Sinann

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 26 April 17 02:21 BST (UK) »
I hope you can find a library that hosts this book and its microfilm for it's a wonderful tool in researching family.

I won't be looking for it. All the records listed are free and online either on FamilySearch, NLI or Irish Genealogy.

So this is what has confused me for I've found this to happen often when making searches. The book mentioned above were copied documents from Civil and Parish records at Dublin so I'm confused when the book and the agencies don't match.


The only Parish records held in Dublin for parishes such as Boherbue are the microfilms on the NLI site.
The Civil Index they copied is on FamilySearch and Irish Genealogy.

All known records for the parish including LDS are listed here
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0021&parish=Boherbue
Which matches with the information you posted
Volume 2: Births, Marriages, Deaths, Barony of Duhallow; Births, Christenings 1833-1864, St. Mary's Roman Catholic parish, Boherbue. County Cork., 2:369

Here's an example; On one site I typed in Julia Loughnane and a baptism record came up for her but all it listed was her name, female, birth about 1818, place of event in Boherbue, County Cork, Ireland, and spouse listed as Timothy Foley.


So they can't have a baptism record for Julia. The record you found isn't a baptism as it gives a spouse and says about 1818. I can't help wondering if it was on Ancestry you found it. It looks like it came from a family tree, or possibly was one submitted to FamilySearch.
It can't be a marriage either as the register before 1863 didn't survive.

If you find it again take a screen shot of it, it's quite a puzzle.



Offline foleygirl

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Re: Johanna Cremin
« Reply #71 on: Wednesday 26 April 17 04:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you for your insight as it was puzzling for me as well. It's obvious not to be a match to my Julia Loughnane but when submitting a search on ancestry, this came up as a document and not off of a family tree. Most of the old documents appear in this form rather than a copy of an actual document. I wanted to view an actual document to understand when, where, and reason so I tried other sites to find the actual document but I reached a dead end as nothing was found.
I am amazed by the success I've experienced with the site's you have shown me. I have never been able to view an actual document other than a census record, draft card, or US death certificate until I met you on this site. Seing the actual documents further back in time and from Ireland are treasures.
I'm experiencing more success with my research now and I thank you for guidance. I just wish a Foley, Cremin, Loughnane family link in present time could link with me. How neat would that be.  😊