Author Topic: "Joining the Watts"  (Read 792 times)

Offline DrT33th

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 16 April 17 10:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Kay and Forfarian,  Thank you both so much for this.  I have made more progress today than in the last two weeks.  8)

The hint for the John Watt, (Baker) death record in Montrose in October 1849 seems correct.  The big questions is why did John move to / from Felton. (I assume that with the Watt surname he was originally from Angus, which is why he went home).

Kay, >>

>>I did find a Master's Certificates
>>William Watt Age:    28
>>Birth Place:    Montrose, Forfar
>>Issue Date:    23 Feb 1871
>>Issue Port:    Montrose
>>Certificate Number:    3308

>>Address listed as 18 Murray St Montrose

Where did you get this?  :D  The dates are spot-on for My GG Grandfather  (I had been looking, and the "W"s have not yet been transcribed at Lloyds. )

Is there any information on what ships he might have been sailing on..and to where?

Forfarian..  I think we have a side-slip ... or something else that I have missed.   at...

>>Isabella and Edward were still living together in 1861 and 1871, and Isabella died in 1875, but you probably know that already. NOPE!  Edward is probably the one who married Jemima Irvine in Montrose in 1872, but he didn't die in Scotland and I have not found him in a later census in England, so he may have emigrated.

Did Isabella re-marry?  Edward Who?  I am now confused again. :-)

What I need to find now is John Watt's birth Certificate... and a little more about his history..

..and find out about Sarah Lillie, who seems to be my GG Grandmother


- Fraser (aka DrT33th)

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Online Kay99

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 16 April 17 10:32 BST (UK) »

Kay, >>

>>I did find a Master's Certificates
>>William Watt Age:    28
>>Birth Place:    Montrose, Forfar
>>Issue Date:    23 Feb 1871
>>Issue Port:    Montrose
>>Certificate Number:    3308

>>Address listed as 18 Murray St Montrose

Where did you get this?  :D  The dates are spot-on for My GG Grandfather  (I had been looking, and the "W"s have not yet been transcribed at Lloyds. )


The Masters Cert is from Ancestry - There are several other that might be him

Kay

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Offline DrT33th

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 16 April 17 10:36 BST (UK) »
Scotland's People 1851 Census shows:

Isabella Watt as head of the bakery in Montrose
 
Sarah Jane Watt (14), Ellen Watt (11)
William Watt ( 8 ) and  Mary Watt (7) were all born in Felton, Northumbria.     

John Watt (4) and Edward Watt (3) were born in Montrose.

Online Kay99

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 16 April 17 10:49 BST (UK) »
1871 Living at 126 14, Murray Street, Montrose

Isabella Watt Widow    51    Baker & Grocer Employs 3 Men & 1 Boy    England    
Sarah J Watt 33    Shopkeeper England    
Helen Watt  31    England    
Edward R    Watt  23 Bank Clerk Montrose

Kay

Offline scotmum

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 16 April 17 11:29 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this is the family in 1841 Living at Longframlington, Felton, Rothbury, Northumberland

John    Walts  30
Sarah Walt 30    
Ann    Walt    6     
Sarah Walt 4    
Ellenor Walt 2    

No occupation listed and all but Ellenor born Scotland

Added - The GRO index has the death of a Sarah Watt age 32
GRO Ref 1843  June Quarter in ROTHBURY UNION  Vol 25  Page 279

The Glasgow Herald of March 16th 1846, has death of an Ann, at Abercorn Place, Portobello, youngest daughter of the late Mr John Watt, baker, Montrose.

The Ann of the census would look to be an eldest daughter  :-\.
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Online Forfarian

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 16 April 17 11:30 BST (UK) »
Forfarian..  I think we have a side-slip ... or something else that I have missed.   at...
Quote
Isabella and Edward were still living together in 1861 and 1871, and Isabella died in 1875, but you probably know that already. NOPE!  Edward is probably the one who married Jemima Irvine in Montrose in 1872, but he didn't die in Scotland and I have not found him in a later census in England, so he may have emigrated.

Did Isabella re-marry?  Edward Who?  I am now confused again. :-)
No. As you can see from the extract from the 1871 census that Kay posted, Isabella and her son Edward were still living in the same household in 1871. (Also daughters Sarah Jane and Ellen/Eleanor/Helen, but I just checked for Edward because Edward is a relatively uncommon name in Scotland.)

Quote
What I need to find now is John Watt's birth Certificate
There is no birth certificate for John Watt. Statutory civil registration did not start until 1855 in Scotland.

I note with interest that John Watt, son of William Watt and Ann Wilson, was born on 22 July 1810 in Montrose. Also that John Watt and Sarah Lillie's eldest daughter seems to have been named Ann, and their eldest son was William. Could this be your John? I'm not sure how you would prove it, however.

William Watt and Ann Wilson also had James, born 1808, and Alexander, born 1815. If any of William, James and Alexander were bakers, this might be a piece of evidence for John's parentage.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Online Forfarian

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 16 April 17 11:36 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this is the family in 1841 Living at Longframlington, Felton, Rothbury, Northumberland

John    Walts  30
Sarah Walt 30    
Ann    Walt    6     
Sarah Walt 4    
Ellenor Walt 2    

No occupation listed and all but Ellenor born Scotland

Added - The GRO index has the death of a Sarah Watt age 32
GRO Ref 1843  June Quarter in ROTHBURY UNION  Vol 25  Page 279

The Glasgow Herald of March 16th 1846, has death of an Ann, at Abercorn Place, Portobello, youngest daughter of the late Mr John Watt, baker, Montrose.

The Ann of the census would look to be an eldest daughter  :-\.

Hmmm. I think I'd want to look and see if there is a burial record that gives an age for Ann at death. Could the paper have put 'youngest' by mistake for 'eldest'? And why the Glasgow Herald? Is there any other evidence for a Glasgow connection?

Doh! Of course this isn't the child in the 1841 census. Her father only died in 1849, so in 1846 he was not 'the late John Watt'! This could be clue to a previous generation.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline scotmum

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 16 April 17 11:42 BST (UK) »
Looks like one of the family continued as a baker. The Dundee Courier of 2nd Dec 1940 has  mention of the bequests of a Montrose woman:

Quote
MONTROSE WOMAN'S BEQUESTS Mary Isabella Watt, baker, 37 Murray Street, Montrose, who left £3810 2s sd, has bequeathed: £50 to Montrose Royal Infirmary; and £25 to the Methodist Church in Montrose

Mary and her brother/cousin (?), William, took over the bakery in 1923, from their late aunt, a Miss Mary Watt, of 17 King Street, Montrose.
"Trees without roots fall over!"
 
""People who never look backward to their ancestors will never look forward to posterity." - Edmund Burke

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Offline DrT33th

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Re: "Joining the Watts"
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 16 April 17 11:44 BST (UK) »
Hi guys, and hello Scotmum...

Forfarian, I have also found the "John Watt 1810 birth record". Again...  the dates look good... and the family naming tradition of William and John keeps going.. (My grandfather was also john, and he had three sons  ..William, John and David (my father).  So that chain is looking promising.

 - Fraser