Phoebe Ellen Ferniough born around 1843/44 who was her mother?

[timmis1]

Thanks Middlesbrough and amond the only trouble with the 1849 Phoebe wouldn't  she be a bit too young for her first marriage in 1864?

[Designer Jeans]

Given access to resources it should be possible to check out the Phoebe baptisms that have been suggested by looking up the marriages of the parents, and then finding them and their families on the 1851 census.  In this way I am able to rule out Phebe Ellen bpt 1849, dau of Philip Fernihough and Lydia Craddock mar Mt Drayton 1840.  I only have access to free stuff, so haven't been able to check the others.

[Designer Jeans]

Hi

On seeing the Lomas family make up on census night 1851 my first instinct was that Phoebe was a relative.  However, I haven't been able to find anything to confirm this.  My second thought was that this was a 'Dr Barnardo Home' type situation where orphans were taken in by more mature couples in return for weekly payments.  Only trouble with this is that Dr Barnardo didn't start his orphanages until 1866.  Even so, I think I may have found the Arthur Francis who is also in the Lomas household on the 1851 census in the GRO Index - Dec qtr 1850 Arthur Morton Francis, Derby Union, no mother's name.  I've read somewhere that he was 5 months old on census night, March 1851 which would make him a perfect fit and also confirm that he was a foundling.  I wonder if Phoebe's circumstances were similar?

www.Hollinsclough.org.uk is a terrific website for general background info.  The section on John Lomas is fascinating and explains why there are so many Lomas folk in the area.

I have drawn a blank with Phoebe's baptism and then there is the question of all those illegitimate children ...

Good luck with her (glad she's not mine!)

[heywood]

Even so, I think I may have found the Arthur Francis who is also in the Lomas household on the 1851 census in the GRO Index - Dec qtr 1850 Arthur Morton Francis, Derby Union, no mother's name.  I've read somewhere that he was 5 months old on census night, March 1851 which would make him a perfect fit and also confirm that he was a foundling.

I think this might be Arthur -  Arthur Morton Francis with his parents in 1861 2545/2/2 as Arthur Morton.
His parents William Morton and Ann Beale Francis married in March 1853 in Chapel en le Frith.
He was baptised at St Peter's Derby 2nd December 1850 although the index shows Arthur Norton Morton 

[Designer Jeans]

Great work, definitely looks like Arthur and sheds a little more light on the household.

[timmis1]

Fantastic work  Designer & Heywood
I am quite  convinced  that Phoebe is illigitamate  and continued the tradition after she lost her first husband after  which she had a couple  of illigitamate  children
I think Groom's conclusion (from a previous  thread ) was good
He found a Jane Fermiough baptised Waterfall 1825 and who was  in service  in leek in 1851 whos parents where Charles & Phoebe but her father  dies in 1851 perhaps that's why she ended up in service

[Designer Jeans]

Phoebe's origins haven't been found, so illegitimate or no the options are

Birth not registered
Baby not baptised
Birth and baptism under a different christian and/or surname
Baptism recorded in parish register not yet checked*
Baptism recorded in parish register which is incomplete/damaged

To rule out * the old fashioned way would be to start in a given location (Leek or Derby) and working in a circle outwards, check every church in every parish.  Time consuming and a bit tedious, but I have known it to work.

Jane Ferniough looks promising.  I have been able to follow her fortunes on familysearch pretty well.  She went on to marry John Torr, a master blacksmith in 1853, have sons Henry 1854 and Arthur 1859 both born Beech.  Arthur dies 1881 aged 22, John dies 1895 and Jane dies 1901 all bur Leek.  They seem to have consistently attended St Lukes Church in Leek and in the 1881 census had a lodger, Alfred Campion who was an assistant curate there.

If Jane is Phoebe's mother I could see why she might have placed her with a 'child minder' and then having moved a bit 'upmarket', left her there.  Coincidence about another Arthur too.

[timmis1]

Thanks again Designer
I think that it would be a good idea for me to check all the churches around leek only thing is that I am not a subscriber to Ancestry but I could use free reg though I did try that a couple of years back

[Designer Jeans]

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