Author Topic: Does anyone know of a connection between Holme Cultram and Gypsies  (Read 2109 times)

Offline Rena

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Re: Does anyone know of a connection between Holme Cultram and Gypsies
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 27 April 17 22:10 BST (UK) »
Hard luck - I'm back  ;D

People usually travel to work & earn money.  Having seen the description of the area I can see there were many farms. I got to thinking about the only travellers that I knew about back in the 1950s on the east coast of Yorkshire and they were Irishmen who only went home to their families in Ireland in the winter. They worked on farms and followed the farming seasons starting in the south of England and working their way up north where the seasons start later.

You mentioned Potters and I think that might be the clue we've been looking for.   You need CLAY to make pottery and to make the pottery shine you need SALT.   I've found a paper that mentions the salt.  Thus your relatives could have bagged up salt and sold it to various potteries and/or he could have made himself an ancient simple kiln covering it with local peat and made his own pottery.


Here's the link to the information:- 
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/archaeology/arf/documents/MEDIEVALASSESSMENT.pdf

" There are references to salt-making around the Solway and Morecambe Bay, and in west Cumberland, largely associated with monastic houses, notably Holme Cultram Abbey, where peat was used as fuel (Martin 1975).  Production was likely to have been through the process known as sleeching or sand-washing, where salt-impregnated sands and silts were filtered through a bed of turf or peat, and the resulting brine was boiled in small pans.  The waste sand from the  process  often  remains  in  large  distinctive  mounds.    On  rocky  coasts,  seawater  may  have  been  directly  boiled, without prior concentration, using large cast-iron pans fuelled with coal (Wilkinson
et al 1998).  The direct boiling process developed from sleeching in the later Middle Ages, and it has been suggested that salt was  possibly  produced  by  direct  boiling  in  the  thirteenth  century  at  Saltom  on  the  West  Cumberland coalfield  (Walsh  1991,  39).  "
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Rena

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Re: Does anyone know of a connection between Holme Cultram and Gypsies
« Reply #10 on: Friday 28 April 17 11:51 BST (UK) »
When you've looked into the possibilities of a connection between pottery and Holme Cultram, I'd love to hear the outcome.

When my daughter was 18 she took up pottery and when I started researching our family history, I discovered my grandmother's maternal family were all engaged in the Yorkshire pottery industry.  I was surprised to see her grandfather crushed flint for the Rockingham & Bramall pottery.  Flint? That set me off doing a bit more pottery research I can tell you lol     

When I first saw your posting I found an image that showed a coal field in the vicinity and as I have both coal miners and iron/steel workers in my families I know that coal mines were usually near metal ore fields.  The nearby rivers will bring clay deposits and thus the clay could possibly be coloured red from the iron ore.  Apparently early red shades of pottery are made from this type of clay.  If you've seen the TV programmes that I have you'll know that potters crushed coloured stones using a pestle and mortar to obtain the coloured dyes that they needed.

Best Wishes,
Rena
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline rob g

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Re: Does anyone know of a connection between Holme Cultram and Gypsies
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 13 May 17 13:39 BST (UK) »
Hi. Just saw your post. My ancestors were all romany families./travellers. called Miller. Donahue. They lived/ camped.were born and baptized in holme cultrame. Abbey town.  Horse Traders. Pot selling. Hawkers.etc..They also stayed in wigton. Which is a market town. And has a horse fair still.my Miller said camped in ratten row. There used to be a traveller fair there. Stopped in the thirties. Don't know what's around the area but it seems to attract travellers. Regards rob
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .

Offline hiyamarra

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Re: Does anyone know of a connection between Holme Cultram and Gypsies
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 13 May 17 16:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Rob, good to hear from you
My bunch were Travellers too also pot dealers and married in to Millers
I also have family who lived at Ratten Row. Did you mean there was a Travellers fair at Ratten Row ??
PM me your e-mail and we can share info there
It would be great to talk to you, perhaps we are related
Keenan, McKenzie, Knowles, Berry, Gregg, Hutchinson, Allan, Strickland.