Gregg/Grigg/Grieg family in 1841 Census - possibly for Oldbury, then in Staffs

[johneowens]

Sorry, Jackie, no - just catching up on the earlier posts, which I had not digested fully. Now modified my last message (hopefully) to reflect where we are, which I think is:

1. Abt 1820, John Grigg m. Mary Horton, but we have not found the marriage.

2. 1831, Amplias born to John Grigg and Mary (nee Horton).

3. 1835, John Grigg dies; 4 yo Amplias goes to live with the Clarks. They are together in the 1841C.

4. 5 Nov 1837, @ All Sts Sedgley (just 3 mls from Dudley), Mary (nee Horton) Grigg (full age-widow-father Thomas Horton) married Joseph (Jesse?) Timmins (full age-widower-bricklayer-father Moses) of Princes End
ITPO Thomas & Maria Fanton.

5. 1841C, the Timmins' are living next door to the Clarks with a child Leonard, who is Amplias' half brother.

6. 1851C at Oldbury, Worcs, Amplias' half bro Leonard Timmins age 11 is visiting a Thomas + Maria Fanton.

7. 1852, Amplis marries Edward Yieveley in Smethwick ITPO Clarks.

Would appreciate your confirmation.

I see you have Timmins of Tipton in your interests.

Many thanks for your help - and apols for misunderstanding.

Best

John

[jacquelineve]

John
        Yes can confirm.

Now..wait for it..what if John Grigg was married twice,both wives named Mary...these Griggs-Clarkes
+Fantons (or Fentons) seem to be cropping up.

The last date for the Grigg childrens baptisms at Oldbury was 1826.Could this be their mother Mary.

Burial 30th Aug 1827 All Sts West Bromwich-Mary Grigg age 24-Abode Oldbury.

Marriage St Peter+Paul Aston 11 Aug 1830
John Grigg widower + Mary Clarke widow-Witness Susanna Barnsley.

Marriage St Peters Wolverhampton 21 Feb 1816
John Clarke + Mary Horton.

Cannot correctly establish dth/burial for John Clarke....but going back to 1841 census..Thomas +
Ellen Clarke.

Marriage All Sts West Brom 21 Oct 1839

Thomas Clarke  18-bach-puddler-abode W.Brom-father John Clarke-miner
&
Ellen Jones  19 spin.W.Brom-Father John Jones -carpenter

Witnesses William Grigg + Maria Fanton

Phew!!

Jackie

[johneowens]

Dear Jackie

You're brilliant. Many thanks.

I'm now en route back to the UK so will reply once I've digested all this on Monday. As usual, it looks very impressive.

Best for now

John

[trish1120]

Well done Jackie, what a tangled web

[jacquelineve]

Trish....Thank you.

John
       Re. the witnesses at Mary Grigg + Jesse Timmins marriage 1837.(Thomas + Maria Fanton) also
who Leonard Timmins was living with in 1851

It's possible that Maria was Mary's daughter

Marriage St Martins Tipton  18th July 1836
Thomas Fanton - bach - Tipton
Maria Clark - spin - Tipton
Witness John Jones

A possible bapt. St Martins Tipton 7th March 1819
Maria Clarke - abode Sedgley -John Clarke-miner-Mary

Jackie

[johneowens]

Wondering if this could be John Griggs sister..(there's very few Amplias Griggs knocking about)

Marriage St John the Baptist Halesowen 8th Dec 1832

Amplias Grigg (spin) + Samuel Johnson(bach)

Witnesses John Grigg + Elizabeth Johnson

Oldbury was in the Halesowen district ( in 1841 census)

Jackie

Not sure this is my John Grigg for it would mean he was not buried 26 November 1835 @ Church St Wesleyan Chapel, Oldbury, Worcs at 38? And, if he did not die in 1835 and his wife Mary (nee Horton) was still alive, why had 4 yo Amplias gone to live with the Clarkes by 1841?

Puzzle - or have I missed something?

best

John

[johneowens]

Dear Jackie

Thanks again. Sorry about the delay in responding. I'm just catching up and trying to sort all this out..

Do you think the following revised chronology works? (Some queries, however).

1. 5 November 1797 Amplias's father John Grigg bapt @ Christ Church, Oldbury - even though bapt record says "Joseph son of Joseph & Hannah Grigg"?

2. c1798. Mary Horton[/b] born (father: Thomas Horton)

3. 21 Feb 1816 John Clarke (father: John, a miner) m. Mary Horton (father: Thomas Horton).

4. 1816-1830, John Clarke died some time .

5. 26 November 1820. John Grigg bach married Mary Sheldon spinst @ St. Thomas' Dudley ITPO Hannah Sheldon & S. Paskin by Banns. Bride groom, & witnesses all signed. First born: William 1821

3. 30 Aug 1827. Mary Grigg (nee Sheldon) buried at All Saints, West Brom aged 24, abode Oldbury (as per Jackie's 29Apr17) post). Last child Job bapt 1826 @ Smethwick by John & Mary of Smethwick.

4. 11 Aug 1830. Amplias' father John Grigg (b. 1797) remarried - Mary Clarke (nee Horton, also a widow), which means that Amplias' mother is actually Mary Horton.

5. 21 August 1831 Amplias bapt d. of John Grigg (jobbing smith) and Mary (nee Horton then Clarke).

6. 26 November 1835 John Grigg buried Church St Wesleyan Chapel, Oldbury, Worcs aged 38; 4 yo Amplias goes to live with Thomas & Ellen Clarke (Thomas likely was John's bro).

7. 5 Nov 1837 Mary Grigg (nee Horton, then Clarke) (full age-widow-father Thomas Horton) married Joseph (Jesse?) Timmins (full age-widower-bricklayer-father Moses) of Princes End @ All Sts Sedgley (just 3 mls from Dudley), ITPO Thomas & Maria Fanton.

8. 1841C. Amplias (10) living with Thomas & Ellen Clarke & family @ Bromford Street, West Bromwich, Staffs (who married 21 Oct 1839 @ All Saints, W Brom ITPO William Grigg & Maria Fanton).

9. 1841C. Next door: Joseph & Mary (nee Horton, then Clarke) Timmins with son Leonard, who is Amplias' half brother (b. 1839 Dudley Union/Workhouse). Why is Mary in the workhouse, if married to Jos. Timmins in 1837?

10. 1851C at Oldbury, Worcs, Amplias' half bro Leonard Timmins age 11 is visiting a Thomas + Maria Fanton.

11. 1852, Amplias married Edward Yieveley in Smethwick ITPO John (1/2 bro?) & Mary Ann Clarke.

What do you think?

Best wishes - and many thanks, again

John

[johneowens]

Could there be a connection with the following..

1841 census West Bromwich Staffs H0107/978   Bk5  folio27   page 10

Thomas Clarke  20
Ellen                20
John                15
Ann                 15
Hamphles Grig  10

next door
Joseph  Timmins   40 bricklayer
Mary                    40
Leonard                2

I know the above is Joseph...but...

Marriage All Sts Sedgley 5th Nov 1837

Jesse Timmins-full age-widower-bricklayer-father Moses
                        +
Mary Grigg-full age-widow-father Thomas Horton

Abode Princes End
Witnesses Thomas + Maria Fanton.

In 1851 at Oldbury Worcs-Leonard Timmins age 11 is visiting a Thomas + Maria Fanton.

Jackie

Full circle! And who else is a visitor with Leonard and the Fantons in the 1851C @ Oldbury? None other than Amplias' future husband, Edward Everley (Hivaley), also a sawyer. Amplias and Edward married the following year. Useful corroboration for your findings, huh?

Many thanks again - and to the others who helped.

Best

John

[jacquelineve]

John
       So you are all sorted!!   

Good Luck

Jackie