David Jones and "mary" Birmingham?

[Jomot]

Marriage 30 Mar 1794, St Martin, Birmingham, David Jones & Mary Eagles, by Licence.  This couple was baptising children at St Martin, including Thomas Eagles Jones baptised 17 May 1796.  It looks like their children continued to be baptised at St Martin.

A different David & Mary Jones were baptising children at St Philip, including Mary on 26 Aug 1791 & Martha on 1 Jan 1794 (ie before the other couple had married).

The St Philip couple also baptised (amongst others) John on 17 Apr 1797 and Thomas on 26 Dec 1810, which fits with the 1841 census you have found for David Jones, Locksmith with wife Mary plus John 40 & Thomas 30.   As Samuel was also baptised at St Philip, this looks a good fit for his family. 

There are a couple of baptisms at Deritend that also look likely for this couple (Elizabeth 1796 & David 1799).

Unfortunately the 1841 has David & Mary as not born in county, so they could have married anywhere.

[truebritmega]

well donejomot!

so i guess, really, the only way to be certain now would be to actually get.. samuels actual birth cert? that will still have mothers maiden name Im assuming for that early?

[Jomot]

Civil Registration didn't begin until 1837, so there won't be a birth certificate unfortunately.   

[truebritmega]

damn.. ty for telling Me.. so I guess now theres no real way to track em further

[truebritmega]

well i guess my next shot.. is to go after samuels wife.. this elusive "mary ann" and try and find her family

[Sloe Gin]

I would look for Samuel's brothers John and Thomas in the 1851 census. You should have occupations for them from 1841, and you have their birth years.  It's a long shot, but if either of the parents is still alive they might be with them.  If so, you would get a place of birth.

[Annette7]

I know it's not easy with a surname like Jones but I think you are making too many assumptions.

Studying the census records, etc. the Samuel, gun finisher, in 1861 and 'your' Samuel, brass founder, are 2 different people.   According to 1841/1851 census the gun finisher Samuel was married to an Ann but in 1861 wife is Mary Ann.   Don't know if Ann and Mary Ann are the same person, or whether Samuel remarried between 1851 and 1861.   This Samuel is shown bc.1801.

'Your' Samuel - brass finisher - is shown on 1841 census as bc.1806 - remember that ages were rounded down in 1841 so this means he was born 1802 to 1806 so doesn't mean that he was the son of David Jones and Mary - there are at least 3 other possible baptisms (2 in 1804 and 1 in 1805).

Although when daughters Sarah and Emma married (1842 and 1860) they both state father as Samuel Jones, Brass Founder and although Emma doesn't state he was deceased it doesn't mean he wasn't.

A Samuel Jones aged 41 (from GRO own index) death reg'd Mar.1945 Birmingham may possibly have been him which would explain why he isn't to be found after 1841.

I know I'm not helping, but a) Samuel, gun finisher, bc.1801 and Samuel, brass founder, bc.1802-1806 are 2 different people and b) I personally don't think Samuel, brass founder, was the son of David and Mary and that he was actually one of the 3 other possible Samuel's born in 1804 or 1805. 

Annette

[truebritmega]

ty Annette..

the other reason Im thinking that both the 1841 and 61 samuels and mary, mary anns are correct is they are both having the ame fam in bath street birmingham...

scratches my head lol

[Jomot]

Annette has a good point.  Although we have been attempting to answer your specific question (Samuel born 1806 to David & Mary), there is no evidence that this is actually the 'right' Samuel.

I note your comment about the address in 1861, but they have a daughter with them named Eliza Ann.  Although the census says she was born c1828 her marriage on 31 Dec 1868 has her age as 44 (born 1824) & confirms her father as Samuel Jones, gun maker.   Her baptism was at St Philip 14 Mar 1825 (born 23 Sep 1824) - Eliza Ann d/o Samuel & Ann Jones of Aston Street, Gun Finisher.

In 1841 Samuel, Ann & Eliza were living at Price Street:

Francis Jones 51 Gun Stoker   
Samuel Jones 41 Gun Finisher   
Ann Jones  47   
Eliza 16      
Charles 15      
Emma 13   
William 11      
Thomas 8      
Emannuel 6 

whereas your Samuel was in Bath Street:

Samuel Jones 35 Brass Founder       
Mary  35      
Sarah  15   
Emma  10