Author Topic: Wye Parish Registers  (Read 4222 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 14 May 17 00:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

I have just come across your posts regarding your Denne/Dence connection. 

First, to answer your initial post regarding lookups back to 1500 in the Wye registers:  those registers commence 1538 for baptism and burials and 1540 for marriages, only.  No earlier registers than these dates exist.

Second,  you mention that Michael Denne was the son of your Margaret (nee Dence) and that there is a Michael son of a Thomas who is mentioned in her Will [I think the posts are rather long and difficult to follow in places].  The Will of Margaret Denne was drawn at Ickham in 1613 and probated in 1624 but place of residence has not been stated.  A transcript of the Will is posted online here (for the benefit of others that may read the posts, here):

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mrawson/denn1624.html

I see only two sons mentioned in her Will:  William and Thomas.  Even though the Will is written in an archaic fashion, it appears that Thomas married Margaret and had Michael and William.  Margaret, the mother, even goes the extra mile in her Will to specifically state that Thomas is her younger son.  So, I'm wondering where the son Michael (son of Michael Denne and Margaret nee Dence) fits in.  Did he and his wife die before Margaret made her Will?  Did he not have any children as none are mentioned in Margaret's Will?  Margaret mentions several daughters who apparently have entered several marriages and their children.  She also names the brother Dence and cousin Dence.

Also, I have tried to verify the information concerning Margaret Naishe or Nasshe as this lady's husband, Thomas Denne, is the ancestor of our mutual Mathew Austin.  I have only been able to identify a Margaret Naishe the daughter of William and Margaret Naishe who married a Mr Wraith.  But, not a Margaret Wraith who married a Naishe or Nasshe.  Additionally, there is a Will for a William Nashe at Barham proved in 1547, which I will retrieve this coming Thursday.  If it happens that William Nashe is the husband of Margaret Naishe or Nasshe, then this lady was certainly not the mother of the several children of Thomas Denne that have been attributed to her by earlier researchers.  The Will of Thomas Denne mentions

Quote
Item I will to Margaret my wife all those parcels that the said Margaret brought to me at the day of our marriage which parcels be written in the inventory of William Naishe
;  and,

Quote
William Naishe’s apparel and his purse and money.

The latter statement sounds more like the bequests of a husband rather than a father as surely, if it were Margaret's father those clothes would be quite out-of-date and possibly nothing more than rags by 1552 and the purse and money, I would think, would have been long spent. 

I will definitely let you know when I have the Will of William Naishe/Nashe of Barham what secrets it holds and what answers it reveals.

Sincerely,
Susan

Just some thoughts.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline MattD30

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 14 May 17 20:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

I have just come across your posts regarding your Denne/Dence connection. 

First, to answer your initial post regarding lookups back to 1500 in the Wye registers:  those registers commence 1538 for baptism and burials and 1540 for marriages, only.  No earlier registers than these dates exist.

Second,  you mention that Michael Denne was the son of your Margaret (nee Dence) and that there is a Michael son of a Thomas who is mentioned in her Will [I think the posts are rather long and difficult to follow in places].  The Will of Margaret Denne was drawn at Ickham in 1613 and probated in 1624 but place of residence has not been stated.  A transcript of the Will is posted online here (for the benefit of others that may read the posts, here):

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mrawson/denn1624.html

I see only two sons mentioned in her Will:  William and Thomas.  Even though the Will is written in an archaic fashion, it appears that Thomas married Margaret and had Michael and William.  Margaret, the mother, even goes the extra mile in her Will to specifically state that Thomas is her younger son.  So, I'm wondering where the son Michael (son of Michael Denne and Margaret nee Dence) fits in.  Did he and his wife die before Margaret made her Will?  Did he not have any children as none are mentioned in Margaret's Will?  Margaret mentions several daughters who apparently have entered several marriages and their children.  She also names the brother Dence and cousin Dence.

Also, I have tried to verify the information concerning Margaret Naishe or Nasshe as this lady's husband, Thomas Denne, is the ancestor of our mutual Mathew Austin.  I have only been able to identify a Margaret Naishe the daughter of William and Margaret Naishe who married a Mr Wraith.  But, not a Margaret Wraith who married a Naishe or Nasshe.  Additionally, there is a Will for a William Nashe at Barham proved in 1547, which I will retrieve this coming Thursday.  If it happens that William Nashe is the husband of Margaret Naishe or Nasshe, then this lady was certainly not the mother of the several children of Thomas Denne that have been attributed to her by earlier researchers.  The Will of Thomas Denne mentions

Quote
Item I will to Margaret my wife all those parcels that the said Margaret brought to me at the day of our marriage which parcels be written in the inventory of William Naishe
;  and,

Quote
William Naishe’s apparel and his purse and money.

The latter statement sounds more like the bequests of a husband rather than a father as surely, if it were Margaret's father those clothes would be quite out-of-date and possibly nothing more than rags by 1552 and the purse and money, I would think, would have been long spent. 

I will definitely let you know when I have the Will of William Naishe/Nashe of Barham what secrets it holds and what answers it reveals.

Sincerely,
Susan

Just some thoughts.

Hi Susan

The Denne family is fairly large but thankfully there are quite a few wills for them. I have got almost all the Wills for the Dennes including the will of Margaret Denne (1624).

Actually there are several Margarets in this family:

Margaret Nasshe - who was probably born Margaret Wraith who married Thomas Denne (died 1552)

Margaret Dence/Dennse - who married Michael Denne, son of the above, and who died in 1624 - 30 years after Michael! I have the Wills of both)

Margaret Pett - who married Thomas Denne, son of the above mentioned Michael and Margaret.

I have transcripts and extracts for almost all of the Denne Wills available and I've recently obtained copies of the Wills where I've previously only had extracts. I'm currently redrawing up my Denne tree but I'll go through your notes and get back to you with more thoughts on these.

I've got a copy the Will of Michael Denne (d1594) now so once I've gone through that a bit more I can let you know what that says as well.

Anyhow I'll go through your notes and get back to you asap. If you have any Wills for the Dence/Dense family it would be great to know btw.

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #20 on: Monday 15 May 17 13:18 BST (UK) »
Second update.

The Michael Denne I mentioned in reference to the Will of Margaret Denne (nee Dence) was actually her grandson not her son. In the Will she states :

"I give and bequeath unto Margaret my daughter in law one piece of gold of twenty shillings I give and bequeath unto Michael Denne her son thirty pounds"

The Margaret in this quote is Margaret Pett who married Margaret's son Thomas Denne.

As you said Margaret's will was proved in 1624. In it she is described as "Margaret Denne of Ickham within the County of Kent widow"

Her husband Michael Denne died in 1594. Both Michael and Margaret mention some of the same people. Michael mentions his grandson Michael (son of his son Thomas) and also his daughter Mary Forstall and her son Michael, both of whom Margaret also names.

I only have an extract of that will to hand so I will send more details later.

Hope that clears a few bits up

Matt

You mentioned that Margaret Naishe who married Thomas Denne is an ancestor of Matthew Austin/Austen. How are they connected?

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #21 on: Monday 15 May 17 18:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt,

Thank you.  Yes, your second update matches what I have determined from Margaret's Will of probated 1624.  So, we're good on that.

Unfortunately, I do not have any Dence Wills but am able to access any Consistory or Archdeaconry Court of Canterbury Wills very easily.  So, if you have any references for Wills that you need, please let me know.  I'd be happy to retrieve them for you.  I just keep falling across Dence individuals in reference to the Austen family.

Now, I thought that the statement that Thomas Denne is the ancestor of our mutual Mathew Austen would intrigue you.  Yes, that is the case.  His father, Richard Austen, married Agnes Denne, daughter of Thomas Denne and reputedly Margaret Naishe.  The Denne connection has been  largely proven.  What is questionable, at least in my viewpoint, is the mother of Agnes.  That is the problem I am trying to solve currently.

Sincerely,
Susan
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE


Offline David Boulding

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 30 July 17 16:27 BST (UK) »
Is anyone able to check for some christenings and burials in Wye? I am trying to find some information on people with the name Dense/Dence/Dennse between about 1500 and 1590. In particular I am keen to find any references to the following people:

Margaret Dense - born sometime between 1500 and 1540 I suspect
John Dense - born sometime between 1500 and 1540
Phillis Dense [daughter of John] - probably born between 1540 and 1624
Philip Dense - born and died before 1624.

If anyone can help or needs more details please let me know.

Thanks

Matt

Help yourself here... A full transcription

http://www.hastingleigh.com/Wye-Index.html
Boulding Boulden Bollyng (all - mostly Kent)
Finch (Kent - Henry & Elizabeth (Fossett)  Finch m1687  London)
Foord (Kent - Aldington, Stanford area)
Philpot (Kent - Alexander Philpot died 1601 Ashford)
Waggon/Waghorn (Kent pre 1715)
Rose (Kent)

Offline MattD30

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 30 July 17 21:07 BST (UK) »
Is anyone able to check for some christenings and burials in Wye? I am trying to find some information on people with the name Dense/Dence/Dennse between about 1500 and 1590. In particular I am keen to find any references to the following people:

Margaret Dense - born sometime between 1500 and 1540 I suspect
John Dense - born sometime between 1500 and 1540
Phillis Dense [daughter of John] - probably born between 1540 and 1624
Philip Dense - born and died before 1624.

If anyone can help or needs more details please let me know.

Thanks

Matt

Help yourself here... A full transcription

http://www.hastingleigh.com/Wye-Index.html

Hi

Thanks for that useful link. I had already found this link myself but so far I am unable to find any trace of these people. I have used both the spelling 'Dence' and 'Dense' which both appear to have been used but with no luck.

I have found references to other members of the family including some who may be the children of the Philip Dence and John Dence I listed in my post.

I will double check these when I next visit Canterbury.

Matt

Offline MattD30

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #24 on: Monday 07 August 17 16:28 BST (UK) »
It's good that you've managed to go so far back Matt and is indeed a matter of fitting all the pieces together.

Here are a few baptisms at Wye.

1591 Robert s/o John Dence
1590 Martha d/o Philip Dence
1570 Amy s/o Richard Dence
1577 William s/o Rychard Dence
1580 Margaret d/o Rychard Dence
1583 Thomasen d/o Rychard Dence
1556 Mary d/o Mychill Dene
1581 Elyzabeth d/o Rychard Dene
1566 Barnabus s/o John Denlle
1560 Thomas s/o Mychil Denn
1540 Rychard s/o Phyllp Denns
1589 Susanna d/o Jhon Dens
1594 Michell d/o John Dens
1546 John s/o Phylypp Dens
1574 Thomas s/o Richard Dense

This burial may also be relevant
1547 Phyllyp Denns

All of the above are as they appear on the info I have and in some cases (s/o and d/o) dubious.

Hope is all helps  :)

Hiya

I don't suppose you have any idea of when Philip Dense (father of Martha) was born?

Martha was born in 1590 so I would estimate he was probably born between the 1540s and early 1570s.

I see there is no Philip in this list you've compiled so I wonder if he was born elsewhere. Records at the National Archives seem to show a connection to the parish of Brook so I wonder if he came from there?

With regards to the Philip Dence who died in 1547 I have a copy of his will. In this he mentions "the church of Broke" which I suspect is Brook. This Philip could be the father of my Margaret as he mentions a daughter named Margaret who would be around the right age. His son Richard also had a daughter named Margaret but she was born in 1580, so can't be the Margaret who married into the Denne family.

Anyhow I'll end there but look forward to any ideas you have.

Matt

Offline bearkat

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Re: Wye Parish Registers
« Reply #25 on: Monday 07 August 17 19:05 BST (UK) »
John & Philip DENCE are mentioned in Calendars of the Proceedings in Chancery, in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth, volume 3, page 269.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kii/

Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk