Easy way to find all the children of a couple in Scottish Stat Records?

[hurworth]

I've been spoiled by the GRO records and how you can now search by surname and mother's maiden name.

I recently came across a 3 year old boy living with his aunt in London in 1891.  She and her siblings were all born in England.  His surname was her maiden name and it said he was born in Scotland.  He died a few months later in London.  I do wonder whether he was living with his aunt because something had happened to his parents.

I now have his birth record in Scotland, and his parents' marriage in Scotland.

Is there any easy way to find out whether this boy had siblings?

[scotmum]

Unfortunately, SP do not allow for birth searches using known parents names (would that they did).

Have you tried a parent search via www.familysearch.org? If you leave forename blank and input surname then click on parents and input both their forenames and surnames, it may throw up an indication, at least, of potential siblings, which you could then cross check on SP.

Or, if the surname was not overly common in the area, you could try an SP search for births around same timescale and in same registration district.

[Forfarian]

Unfortunately, SP do not allow for birth searches using known parents names (would that they did).

It's not so much that they don't allow such searches, but that the indexes were compiled originally without mothers' maiden surnames until 1929. SP has been gradually adding mothers' surnames to birth index entries, but progress is very slow.

Hats off to the GRO for adding mothers' maiden surnames to their indexes, though they still have some way to go too. I found a lot of index entries yesterday without mothers' surnames.

(When the GRO has finished with adding mothers' maiden surnames to the indexes, wouldn't it be nice if they went on to index full middle names from 1911 onwards!)

Is there any easy way to find out whether this boy had siblings?

Not really.

As you presumably know his mother's maiden and married surnames, you could start by looking for her death (assuming that she died in Scotland). If she died quite young, that would give you an earliest and latest possible birth date for siblings (leaving aside the possibility of an older child born before the parents' marriage. Then search the district where the 3-year-old-in-1891 was born for births with the same surname.

If she died after 1911, go for the 1911 census. This will tell you how many children she had had, and how many were still living, so you know how many you need to find.

If any of them were living with her in 1911, you will know where they were born and thus where to look for births. You should also be able to find her in the 1901 and 1891 censuses.

[hurworth]

There's no sign of them in 1891 - just the boy in London.  His name on the census in London is his middle name on his birth registration so I was taking a gamble with six credits when I ordered that one. 

I have found her family though, but they're not providing any clues yet.

The couple were married by Warrant of the Sheriff.

[Rosinish]

Can you share details please for us to try & help.

Names, dates, places, all known facts really.

Annie

[Forfarian]

The couple were married by Warrant of the Sheriff.

That's not quite what happened.

They would have been married by declaration before witnesses. This was a perfectly legal form of marriage, although for obvious reasons the Kirk didn't like it.

The Sheriff's Warrant only comes in later. After the wedding ceremony the couple went to the Sheriff and made a statement saying they had contracted a marriage by declaration, and this was corroborated by the witnesses. Once the Sheriff was satisfied that they had been married legally, he granted a Warrant to allow them to have the marriage registered, so they had documentary proof of the marriage.

So they didn't need the Sheriff's Warrant to be legally married, but they did need it for the marriage to be registered.

Yes, that opens cans of worms, because it leaves open the possibility that a couple might declare themselves married before witnesses, but never bother or get round to having the marriage registered, so there is no documentary record to be found.

Also, this procedure was only required after the start of statutory civil registration in 1855, because before that there were no civil registers for the marriage to be recorded in, and hence no need for a Warrant authorising the registration of the marriage.

[hurworth]

I've found them in London in 1911!  She says she's been married for 33 years (but it was about 24years)

I was wrong about her family in Edinburgh not providing any clues.  There was a baby living with her family - a grandson.  He's the illegitimate older brother of the lad who died in 1891.  I think they are full brothers because the older one has our relative's surname as a middle name on his birth registration.  He has our relative's forenames but not in the same order.

And, to be REALLY helpful his mother has this eldest lad on her 1911 census return, and he is also recorded at his own residence down the street where he is living with his wife and child.

[hurworth]

Thanks Forfarian.

I don't think they were churchgoers really.  Based on dates she is probably expecting and they already have a six year old.

[Forfarian]

That is probably why they opted for marriage by declaration. It was the only way to get married without a clergyman.