Different DNA Test, Different Results

[RobertCasey]

I have tried to find more info about 'L226' and the only place I could find it mentioned is in two Irish American family history thread blogs/projects.

Here is my web site on the R-L226 haplogroup (the three links in the haplogroup pull down menu are updated weekly but the other content is not updated very often):

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/R_L226/R_L226_Private.html

Another good web site is maintained by the lead admin for the R-L226 project - our YSTR signature was the third signature (YSTR pattern) that is believed to be 90 % Irish in origin and between 1,500 to 2,500 years old (the older date includes L226 equivalent branches). This is why this web site states Irish Type III:

http://www.irishtype3dna.org/index.php

I am only aware of three haplogroups that are very Irish in origin: R-M222 (largest - 3X larger than L226), R-L226 (second largest) and CTS4466 (third largest - pretty close to L226). This represents only five percent of Irish testers, so haplogroups can only identify five percent of the Irish testers, the rest are pretty mixed. M222 and L226 are connected to the first two kings to unite/conquer the entire island of Ireland and enjoy the spoils of war to become prolific.

A lot of English surnames are now used by Irish people today.

I see many American family history researchers who say this.

This is based only on R-L226 genetic testers only and the known family history associated with these testers. To date, for 90 % of the testers who predicted or verified to be R-L226, they list Ireland as their place of residence for any European countries. In fact, R-L226, has 80 % of the testers who show a county level residence are from only five counties in southern Ireland: Clare, Tipperary, Cork, Kerry and Limerick. Since R-L226 was proven to include King Brian Boru and his ancestry, the original origin is probably limited to County Clare. One of our testers is Sir Conor O'Brien, the official title holder of the O'Brien surname - title that has been passed to only to male O'Brien descendants over the last 1,000 years (it goes through a formal approval process every generation for around 40 generations). The rise in prolific offspring of R-L226 tracks very closely with the rise to power of Dal gCais tribe, the ancestors of King Brian Boru.

One of my grandchildren has 'Casey' ancestry, this is why I am trying to understand it all btw.

Here is my web site on the Casey DNA project:

http://www.rcasey.net/DNA/Casey/CaseyDNAProject.html

If you grandchild can prove her Casey line back to 1870 (with ties to the five counties mentioned for R-L226) and can locate a living Casey descendant of this line, I will send this living male descendant a FTDNA 37 marker test kit at no charge ($169 value). I descend from one of the earliest larger migration of Irish to America in the 1740s during the large crop failures driven by significant climate change for several years. They were residing in western South Carolina in the early 1750s and by 1800, there were around 50 adult Casey males living in three counties of South Carolina.

Three of our Casey genetic lines are R-L226 and represent around one-third of all Casey's in the world today. We also have a few Casey's that were R-M222 as well. The rest have a very varied haplogroups and around 20 % have not tested enough YSNPs to know which haplogroup they belong to. This based on the 75 Casey testers to date which is very biased with American testers with very few Irish testers. However, the number of people of Irish descent are spread through out the British colonies:

Casey tracks the averages: Ireland 1X, USA 8X, England 1.2X, Australia/NZ 1X and Canada 0.5X
Hogan tracks the averages: Ireland 1X, USA 7.6X, Australia/NZ 1.3X, England 1X and Canada 1X
McNamara tracks close: Ireland 1X, USA 5.6X, Australia/NZ 1.8X, England 1.2X and Canada 0.6X

http://forebears.io/surnames/hogan

[cidney]

I don't think these tests are worth taking. Mine came back virtually all British, even going back thousands of years.  You only have to look at my dad to see he's not from British stock! So what's going on here?

[RobertCasey]

The geographic analysis done by all genetic testing companies (and even at GEDMATCH) is based on very unreliable technology. It does a pretty reasonable job at the continental level but there is a lot of misleading marketing on the accuracy and consistency of geographic mixtures. The advanced forums are full of complaints about these parts of these tests. This unfortunately really detracts from the matching part of the atDNA tests which can be useful. But even these are now being marketed beyond their reasonable limits of accuracy.

Also, the simplistic tools of just raw matching based on shared segments makes individuals think there are relationships when there are not. You really have to triangulate segments to match your ancestors to really know which matches belong to each line. Most people just do not want to spend the time and funds for this. They do not want to spend the time to download raw results for upload to GEDMATCH for much better tools.

YDNA is being over-marketed as well - but at least this testing will pay off in the next few years and for some lucky testers are already began to yield some truly significant progress. But again the FTDNA matching system is way too simplistic in nature and most do not want to spend the significant effort in understanding better ways to analyze. We really need better tools but end users want them for free. As the actual testing continues to go down in price, the software and IT costs are now probably more than the actual testing. Eventually, these two parts will have to be separated unless you are happy with the minimal unreliable tools that vendors currently offer.

[cidney]

Yes I agree with you Robert, I do think these tests are being over-marketed and they are beyond reasonable levels of accuracy at the moment, it may well be better to let the tests develop over time and then re-take them.  Then we should hopefully receive some with more meaningful results!

[RobertCasey]

Yes I agree with you Robert, I do think these tests are being over-marketed and they are beyond reasonable levels of accuracy at the moment, it may well be better to let the tests develop over time and then re-take them.  Then we should hopefully receive some with more meaningful results!

I do not understand why people think that niche companies like genetic genealogy testing companies will be any different from car advertisers. The atDNA companies are much worse than the YDNA testing companies though. But all this hype does get people interested and eventually they get more serious about atDNA segment matching and advanced YDNA testing of YSNPs.

There is little doubt that in 10 to 20 years, YDNA testing will be key to genealogical research and will become primary sources of information as the accuracy and coverage improves. We already know that if you test Y5610 (YSNP) positive that you are direct descendant of King Brian Boru - so there is some serious progress being made already. However, not all geographies are evenly tested and many lines have barely survived leaving few males to test. Under Y5610, we also have five YSNP branches and nine YSTR based branches that help sort out all of the O'Briens.

I was the first Next Generation Sequencing test for R-L226 and now have seven permanent branches of my Irish ancestry that was discovered via my first test. You can either wait for the everyone else to discover your branches for you or you can be proactive in this major advance in genealogy. Eventually, every male person on our ancestry chart will average five or so unique YDNA mutations to identify all male descendants - so the future looks extremely bright in the near future.

[ThrelfallYorky]

Ah well, no male directs in my line left. Save me a fortune that will!

[RobertCasey]

Ah well, no male directs in my line left. Save me a fortune that will!

You are stuck with the traditional genealogical option until you can discover your male ancestor that has living descendants. My great-grandparents that were Shelton's daughtered out as well. But I was able to go back one more generation (born in 1811) and found his brothers as well and now have over 1,000 male descendants charted. atDNA could solve this problem if you ancestor is not too high in your pedigree chart.

Having is no male descendants is one major limitation in YDNA but even greater is that many lines barely survived over the last 1,000 years and only have a handful of male descendants. These lines are subject to daughtering out as well. So test now on mother's YDNA line or get busy with traditional research to get through your brick wall to find 100s of willing YDNA testers or atDNA test around your brick wall.

[famtree03]

So glad I read this thread, you've saved me €90. I  was going to do the DNA as some family members have already done but with so many different results it's obviously a great waste if money. Thank you

[Pheno]

Personally it depends entirely on what you want from a test really.

If you want an accurate report of your ethnicity then yes a waste of time.

However, using the results (whatever the ethnicity) to link up with others who share your DNA and then possibly break down brick walls in your paper research is really useful and not a waste of time.

So far have been able to help two other families achieve a breakthrough in their research - now I am just hoping that my next match will achieve the same for me.

Pheno