Author Topic: Memorials of Irish Deeds  (Read 1001 times)

Offline noseyjosey

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Memorials of Irish Deeds
« on: Tuesday 16 May 17 22:29 BST (UK) »
I probably sound stupid but I have been trying to work out how these memorials work. They seem to show A leasing land to B with what seem to be witnesses, C D E etc  but the  lease is for the term of the lives of three others FGH etc , different people.  Is there a pattern here? Are the three others relatives or possibly tenants of B?  A lot of these memorials  have been transcribed on www.cotyroneireland.com and they are really interesting. Can anyone help, Please.

Offline hallmark

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 16 May 17 22:37 BST (UK) »
you will find some "for the life of the King" etc

The 3 don't have to be relatives!
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Offline noseyjosey

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 16 May 17 23:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks for reply. Why I am  interested is that what I believe to be my ancestor  appears a number of times as "for the lives of". The others mentioned in this way  are, I think, richer people than he was. I was wondering if perhaps he was a rent collector. He was I think a member of the Select Vestry so he may just have been considered respectable. The memorials suggest he was a blacksmith. The memorials are great anyway!

Offline hallmark

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 17 May 17 06:46 BST (UK) »
More than likely a youth....
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Offline hallmark

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 17 May 17 06:52 BST (UK) »
I take it you know the full versions are online...
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Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 17 May 17 16:45 BST (UK) »
I probably sound stupid but I have been trying to work out how these memorials work. They seem to show A leasing land to B with what seem to be witnesses, C D E etc  but the  lease is for the term of the lives of three others FGH etc , different people.  Is there a pattern here? Are the three others relatives or possibly tenants of B?  A lot of these memorials  have been transcribed on www.cotyroneireland.com and they are really interesting. Can anyone help, Please.


What you have been looking at is a 3 lives lease. Throughout the eighteenth century leases for three lives were in fairly widespread use. These leases were often for a term of years [usually 31 or 41 years] or for three lives, whichever was the longer. A three-lives lease expired when all the three persons named in the lease had died. This explains why some eighteenth-century leases lasted well into the nineteenth century. Tenants often named young relatives in the hope that at least one of them would survive for many years. In certain instances it was quite difficult to ascertain whether a particular life in a lease had expired, the most common difficulty being a person who had emigrated in the early part of the nineteenth century.

In the case of perpetuity leases [three-lives for ever] a new life could be inserted at the fall of each life on payment of a renewal fine (fee) which was usually half of the annual rent payment. The annual rent, however, never changed and those in possession of such a lease often sublet their land in the latter years of the eighteenth and the early years of the nineteenth century at a substantial profit. These types of leases were very common on the Phillips estate at Limavady and the Vintners estate at Bellaghy, both properties that had been bought by William Conolly, the Speaker of the Irish House of Commons in 1699 and 1729 respectively. Effectively perpetuity leases were freeholds and entitled the holder of the lease to a vote. This was one of the reasons why Speaker Conolly granted freeholds on his estates.

Three-lives leases are very useful for genealogists because, as mentioned above, a tenant often named members of his family (particularly sons and grandsons) as the lives. When new lives were inserted details of age and relationship were often included and it is possible to work out when the old life died. Unfortunately estate records rarely include the names of any sub-tenants.

Source: http://www.billmacafee.com/estates/landedestaterecords.htm

See also: http://www.irishabroad.com/yourroots/expert/landrecords.asp

Elwyn

Offline noseyjosey

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Re: Memorials of Irish Deeds
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 17 May 17 21:41 BST (UK) »
Thank you Hallmark and Elwyn. I appreciate your help. I will look at the relevant Memorials again to see if I can make more sense of them.