Help with Robert Colly DALE from Newcastle

[Shiny1]

Hi All,

I've been looking at my great grand uncle Robert Colly Dale, born 1892 in Newcastle and was hoping someone may be able to help me with his story.

Ancestry has his baptism date as 19 May 1892 in Christ Church, Newcastle and his name is on as Robert Calley Dale.

Free BMD shows him as marrying in Castle ward, Northumberland between Oct and Dec 1921 but in 1922 and 23 (according to the voters register) he appears to be lodging with William and Esther Atkinson at 45 Bellegrove West.

By 1932 he is registered to vote with Jane Ann Dale living at the same address, 11 Powys Street in Newcastle. According to the voters register in 1939 they both moved to 34 Prospect Place.

Free BMD lists his wife's name as Jane A Smith on Robert's entry for their marriage but Jean on her own.

The Chronicle's death announcement for Robert Colly Dale in 1943 says "Robert, dear loved husband of Jean".

So my main question is how do I find out her name? was it Jane or Jean? Why would it keep appearing differently, is that her writing it differently or some other reason.

I'm also wondering about children, there's none named in his death announcement so I'm guessing there wasn't any, is that a safe assumption?

Thanks for the help,

Michael

[Millmoor]

Jean and Jane can be interchangeable. Worth having a look at the excellent "whatsinaname" site - it is Scottish centred but is very good on showing synonyms, variants,pet names etc. I have found it invaluable. (My great aunt from co Durham was born Jane but was always known by the pet name Jenny).

William.

[JenB]

Free BMD lists his wife's name as Jane A Smith on Robert's entry for their marriage but Jean on her own.

The marriage is indexed as Robert C. Dale + Jane A. Smith AND Robert C. Dale + Jean Smith. 4 q. 1921, Castle Ward 10b, 683.

[JenB]

I'm also wondering about children, there's none named in his death announcement so I'm guessing there wasn't any, is that a safe assumption?

It's not a safe assumption  If you check on freeBMD you'll see that there are quite a few births in Newcastle between 1921 and 1938 with the surname Dale and mother's maiden surname Smith. Any of these might be children of your couple.

[Tickettyboo]

Free BMD lists his wife's name as Jane A Smith on Robert's entry for their marriage but Jean on her own.

if you look at the image those entries were transcribed from (click the glasses icon next to the entry) you will see that she is in the index twice, once as Jane A and once as Jean A, same page same details.
Just guessing but maybe the bride's name, as recorded, differed from what she signed as or the entry may even have said Jane (known as Jean), so both variations were indexed?

A free search of the 1939 register shows Robert C Dale (transcribed as Dole) born 1992 in the same house as a Jane A Dale (Dole) born 1896, she also has an alternate surname of Fulthorpe.

Free BMD marriages Q2 1945, Newcastle
Samuel Fulthorpe and Jane A Dale

I checked Free BMD births in 1896 for Jean or Jean A Smith - none anywhere in England & Wales.
There were a good few for Jane A Smith.

I think its fair to assume her 'official' name was Jane A and she was known as Jean. I reckon they did things like that just to confuse us all these years later:-)


I'm also wondering about children, there's none named in his death announcement so I'm guessing there wasn't any, is that a safe assumption?

1939 free search does not say there are any other people in the household (redacted or otherwise). That doesn't preclude any children who may well have been evacuated (as many were) before the register was compiled so not showing up with Mum and Dad.

Free BMD, search births 1921 - 1944 (year they married to a year after he died), surname Dale, mother's maiden name Smith, no first names specified, County: Northumberland brings up 9 entries all in Newcastle. They are all 'possible' but with just the barebones surname info I have no way of knowing how likely any of them would be. Online baptism records etc rare as hen's teeth for such a 'recent' time, though you could try the archives and trawl through microfilms.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

Hi JenB,
Sorry, you must think there is an echo in here.
I didn't notice there were other posts until I sent it (though there probably was the red warning, I need new specs!)

Boo

[JenB]

I too would be pretty confident that her 'given' name was Jane, but that she was also known as Jean. My aunt, born in County Durham was named Jane, but was invariably known within the family as Jennie. However friends were only allowed to call her Jane. This caused great confusion when family and friends met up for her birthday celebrations, as the friends had no idea who 'Jennie' was 

[Millmoor]

Seems very familiar,Jen. My father used to always talk about his Auntie Jen or Jennie. I can remember going to visit her in Leadgate when I was a wee boy and cannot recall her being called Jane. It took a while when I started researching for me to twig that she was Jane in official records!

William

[Shiny1]

Thanks very much for the help everyone, I've been in the library yesterday so have now got the 1939 register entry for them (not that I would have found it without Boo's help).

I hadn't known about Jean and Jane being interchangeable so thank you for that William and Jen.

Boo, when you say "Online baptism records etc rare as hen's teeth for such a 'recent' time, though you could try the archives and trawl through microfilms." are we talking about a trip to the Discovery museum? do they hold microfilm baptism records?

Thanks again everyone,

Michael