George BLAND of Lancaster & Trinidad 1820s

[..claire..]

Hi

Just a bit of info on the Carlisle family

Esther's Uncle John Carlisle was born in Lancashire ( Chipping) bapt. 2 March 1794 the son of the Reverend John Carlisle  (who was buried in Chipping 30 Mar 1807) - and his wife Betty.

Rev. John Carlisle and Betty Parkinson ( married by licence in Chipping 1784) had many children there, including a William Carlisle bp. 25 Nov 1786 and an ANN bapt.  26 Dec 1788.

A bit about the Reverend here

http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/search/index.jsp

The Reverend John Carlisle was bapt. in SEDBERGH 6 January 1751 to William and Ann Carlisle nee Croxton

Claire

Fascinating thread 

[BlandTree]

Hi Claire,

Thank you for joining this thread and for the information you have added to the quest.  I knew about Ann's father and that he had died before Ann married George, but I had looked no further than that.  This morning, thanks to your prompting, I have found the baptisms of her 11 siblings and the deaths of two of them.  These are all safely in the family tree that I am growing.

One obvious outcome is the very strong naming patterns within the BLAND & CARLISLE families, but this is also causing me a little concern!  George & Ann have named their 6 children after parents and siblings but there is no Thomas.  Ann's father gets a child (John Carlisle BLAND), named after him and Ann & George have children named after themselves and there is an Esther who appears to be named for George's mother but the name of George's dad, Thomas, doesn't get passed down.

And that brings me to the next worry.  When George married, in 1817, he was described as 'of Trinidad'.  By the time that my William gets out to Trinidad c.1820/21 George seems to have a well established business.  When did he go out to Trinidad?  Why did he go to Trinidad?  How did he get started in Trinidad?  I has always assumed that he was born there or that his father had already established an export/import business in Port of Spain.  Now I find that his dad (if Thomas & Esther are his parents) had already died in Sedbergh in 1790, the year after George was born.  I need more proof that George's parents were Thomas & Esther BLAND of Sedbergh and some evidence of his emigration to Trinidad.  A passenger list would help!

Unfortunately, the Sedbergh Parish Registers which I found online were Marriage and Burial registers, volumes 2 & 3.  I really need to see the Baptism registers.  Nicholas CARLISLE (how does he fit into these families?), wrote his 'History' of the Bland family in 1826, for his friend Michael BLAND (who was he?) but the registers he quotes were transcribed for him by the vicar of Sedbergh and contained nothing after 1728!

More questions than answers, I'm afraid, but thanks to you and to Trish and Willsy for all your help so far.

Kind regards to all,

Malcolm
(BlandTree@aol.com)

[..claire..]

There is a short piece on Nicholas Bland on Wikipedia which details his early family - which I have looked at.

His Will along with that of his brother Anthony and of Michael Bland can be found in the PCC Wills on Anc*.

Infact there are numerous Bland and Carlisle Wills that can be looked at. One of the Carlisle Wills ( a William in Workington, Cumberland) names family members in Liverpool - possibly the family you are looking at ?

[willsy]

Have a look at James Walker!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k8g/

EDIT ***there's more online, the Dictionary of National Biography says more about him and he died Devon 1885, there is a probate entry too.

[BlandTree]

I have the marriage of Sir James WALKER to Ann BLAND.
"Sir James Walker, (1809–1885), colonial governor, the son of Andrew Walker of Edinburgh, was born at Edinburgh on 9 April 1809, and educated at the high school and the university there. After entering the Colonial Office as a junior clerk in 1826 he served under several secretaries of state, and on 11 February 1837 he became registrar of British Honduras, from where he was transferred on 18 February 1839 to be treasurer of Trinidad; here he acted as colonial secretary from June 1839 to September 1840. On 15 October 1839 Walker married Anne, the daughter of George Bland of Trinidad. They had a son and three daughters.
He retired on a pension of £400 on 3 May 1871, and lived a quiet country life, first at Uplands, near Taunton, and later at Southerton, Ottery St Mary, Devon, where he died on 28 August 1885. Walker's son, Sir Edward Noel-Walker, was lieutenant-governor and colonial secretary of Ceylon."

I also have the obituary of his son, Edward Noel-Walker, which lists his children, but I haven't yet got round to tracing the descendants of his children, or the descendants of his sisters.  You Rootschat contributors are incredible... I am finding it difficult to keep up with the research prompted by your excellent advice and information!  (That's not a complaint!!) I have not got to bed until 2.00 a.m. on each of the past two nights & last night I forgot to eat!!

Please keep suggestions and discoveries coming!!

Malcolm
(BlandTree@aol.com)

[BlandTree]

Hello, all

In case anyone is wondering how this quest began and upon what evidence it is supported, here is an account written by William BLAND's granddaughter, Amy BLAND.

"William Bland, a master millwright, did not argue that marriage was a failure because he had two sons John and William as well as his wife Elizabeth, better known as "Betty" to provide for. Instead. he resolved to take his talents further afield and try his luck in Trinidad where skilled craftsmen were needed, Otley was not the town to satisfy him and to allow sufficient scope to bring up his family in the comfort he desired.

With a Yorkshire man's superstition he decided the year 1817 was a good year to bid adieu to the homeland, so with his kit of tools he took berths for the family.  Before the day on which the little family was to set sail, his younger child, a delicate boy, was taken ill and was too ill to sail. William, regretfully, sailed alone; promising to write and send money regularly. Sometimes Betty despaired of being left with the two infants; then, ashamed of her lack of courage, she would bake teacakes to sell. They did not need advertising - for Betty was a first-class cook.

The letters from her husband came regularly, packed with good news, telling her that he had 30 blacks working for him and he said that they worked well if kindly treated. He told his wife that soon he would be in a position to retire and. return to England, promising her a lady's life with all the refinements and comforts attendant upon such a happy state.  This news naturally cheered Betty up and in her letters to her husband she told him to carry on with his work; glossing over her own troubles with a true Yorkshire woman's grit. Then a very real trouble presented itself; her younger son was evidently failing and she doubted if his father would ever see him again.  Little treasures from their home were parted with in order to obtain nourishment for little William. Soon only the barest necessities remained, with the exception of the handleless china cups, a china inkstand, a hand-painted fluted tumbler - all considered valuable because of their great age - and a Wedgwood candlestick.  Betty had kept these heirlooms with the tenacity of the poor.  The younger child died and by that time six years had passed since Betty had last seen her husband.  They were preparing for her husband's homecoming since his last letter had stated how very rich he now was and he again stressed that his wife would enjoy a lady's life and have someone to do her work. He wrote in his letter that it had been hard to be away for so long but that it wouldn't be long now before he returned to his home.  His secretary - a man named John Clarke was helping him to settle up his business in Trinidad.

The next news that Betty received was to the effect that her husband had been stricken with Yellow Fever, died and was buried all on the same day and that John Clarke her husband's trusted secretary had taken everything of value and disappeared.   Betty could not pay to have him traced, so, instead of having her surviving son well educated (as had been her ambition) it became necessary for young John to do his bit.   He tramped miles to find work on the land so that they could keep their little home. The long walks to and from work were too much for the young boy so Betty was forced to give up the cottage and take a situation as a cook near to the bothy where her boy now worked. Only the old china remained of their former home."

It is not totally accurate.  For one thing, William's younger son, William, was born in 1819 and so his dad could not have set sail in 1817!  Little William died in 1822, aged 3, so his dad could not have been away for six years when the little fellow died and was buried in Otley churchyard.  But I believe that it is a reasonable account of what happened.  I have been down to The National Archives and found William BLAND's triennial slave register for 1925 but he does not feature in 1822 or 1828.  In 1825, William had just one slave, "Old Nanny Williams" who was 59 years old and did the laundry.  It seems that the "30 blacks working for him... (who) ...worked well if kindly treated" were not, in fact, slaves (thank goodness)!  Interestingly, John CLARKE appears in the slave registers, for the first time in 1928,as owner of a sugar plantation next to where William BLAND's plantation was in North Naparima! 

Now, I have found the following baptisms in Family Search.
Miles Bland  (MJ8X-7Z5)
Birth  11 OCT 1786
Christening  12 NOV 1786
Sedbergh,York,England
father:  Thomas Bland (MJ8X-78X)
mother: Esther (MJ8X-78Y)

Margaret Bland  (MJ8Z-WJB)
birth:   9 December 1787
christening:   6 January 1788, Sedbergh, Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom
father:   Thomas Bland (MJ8Z-WKC)
mother:  Esther (MJ8Z-WKL)

George Bland (MJ84-WBW)
Birth 13 SEP 1789
Christening 11 OCT 1789
Sedbergh,York,England
father:  Thomas Bland (MJ84-WB5)
mother: Esther (MJ84-W1W)

It seems to me to be very likely that Margaret is sister to Miles & George but I have spent hours search for any further trace of her and had no success whatsoever.  She does not seem to have died young, nor can I find a marriage for her.  Any suggestions? 

Thank you all again for all your help, I am extremely grateful.

Malcolm
(BlandTree@aol.com)

[trish1120]

Iteresting read that document.
Although I would think if William was doing well he would send Home money to Elizabeth.

Just a thought;Likely
1st MARRIAGE;
2 July 1751, Thomas BLAND to Margart GAWTHORP

I wonder if there was Children from this Marriage.
If so and there was a Son your William could be a Child of his.

What happened to Elizabeth after William died? Did did she remarry?

Do you have a rough idea when your William was born?

Sorry more questions than answers

EDIT I forgot to add the date of Thomas Blands 2nd Marriage on an earlier posting
(you probably found it anyway)
29 Jun 1786, St Andrew, Sedburgh


Also on Familysearch.Org ia a Burial of a THOMAS Bland, 27 April 1792, Sedbergh, Dent, York, Father THOMAS
Maybe more than 1 Thomas around though.

 

[..claire..]

Hi Trish

What a pity the PRs for Sedbergh are not online - that is a bit of a blow finding that burial in 1792 - it is included on one of the major sites too

[BlandTree]

Thank you, Trish, you have raised a number of questions which have also been concerning me! 

But, first of all, a huge thank you to Willsy for the James Walker connection.  Although I had known about this for quite a while, I had simply recorded it in case Ann BLAND later proved to be related to George Bland of Trinidad.  Now that Trish has proved that she is his daughter, Willsy’s URL link has established George as Miles BLAND’s undisputed brother and, therefore, tracing back Miles’ parents is as valid as tracing back George’s parents.  Willsy, by this proof, has also made me rethink George’s Trinidad history and corrected my false assumption that George was born into a family business in Trinidad, rather than a family in Sedbergh. 

So to the question of William sending money home before his death.  Hmmm!  I hadn’t considered this but I wonder how feasible it would be.  I can accept that letters would (eventually) arrive, but I have reservations about sending significant sums of money across country in the early 19th century.  Sending money from Trinidad to Liverpool on a BLAND owned ship should be safe and delivering that to BLAND’s agent (W. CARLISLE?), should be fine, but its onward journey by coach along turnpike roads and carried by (even) mail coaches could be hazardous and would William want to risk significant sums?  He might have sent sufficient money to buy food & clothes but my assumption (always a dangerous thing to do!), has been that the ‘fortune’ was tied up in the plantation and that it would be raised from the sale of that and added to any money he had put by for his return.  What do others think?
On the other hand, I have seriously questioned Eliza’s plight after William’s death.  There was a John SUGDEN, millwright, who married Hannah BLACKBERRY in Otley in 1792 and had a daughter called Elizabeth born in 1796, which would fit.  Again I am guilty of guesswork here and have no proof that this is the case.  However, as William BLAND was a millwright (marriage certificate), I thought that William might have worked for or with John SUGDEN or even have been apprenticed to him.    Anyway my concern has been, why Eliza’s parents did not rally round to support her or why did William’s family help her out?  That has puzzled me greatly.  However, I think that Amy BLAND got this story from her father who might have exaggerated the hardships.  Her grandmother, William’s widow, had died (choked on a cherry stone!), seven years before Amy was born.

Likely 1st MARRIAGE;
Same Church;
2 July 1751, Thomas BLAND to Margart GAWTHORP

I have looked at this, but not (so far) found any children, although there might have been.  Perhaps someone else will have more luck with this!  From what you gave me earlier it would seem that they were married for 33 years (1751-1784), so having no children is a surprise.

What happened to Elizabeth after William died? Did she remarry?
Elizabeth and her son John, my great grandfather, stayed together until she died in 1870. She never remarried and although when John married (twice), Elizabeth did not always live in the same house, she was never very far away (Source: Censuses 1851-1861 and various published Directories).  However, I have found no trace of them from about 1825 until 1848.  I have not found them in the 1841 census yet!  I shall post Part 2 of Amy BLAND’s ‘History’ separately.

Do you have a rough idea when your William was born?
No!  The marriage certificate states, “With parents’ consent”, which I believe means that one or both of them were under 21 on 16th September 1816.  If I have the right Elizabeth SUGDEN above, it would mean that she was only 20 in 1816, but William could be over 21 of course.  If I could prove that Elizabeth was over 21 it would narrow down William’s possible age considerably!  Looking at baptisms for a William BLAND between 1780 & 1800 in West Yorkshire (where I thought he was probably born), produced:
William Bland b.18 Apr 1787 Baptism 8 Jul 1787  Addingham, St Peter  Parents: James Bland, Ann
William Bland b.15 Jun 1790    Baptism 4 Jul 1790  Addingham, St Peter Parents: Thomas Bland, Margaret
William Bland b.4 Aug   Baptism  11 Sep 1796  Leeds, St Peter (Parish Church) Father: John Bland
William Bland b.13 Aug Baptism 15 Aug 1796  Addingham, St Peter   Parents:William Bland, Elizabeth
William Bland b.8 Sep         Baptism  2 Oct 1796    Bingley   Father: John Bland
William Bland               Christening  6 Jun 1798  Bradford, St Peter (Bradford Cathedral)    Father:John Bland

Of these, I favour the Addingham BLANDs because they were mostly mill owners, millwrights or weavers.      

So, basically, you have plenty of questions to which I have no answers, but you have made me think carefully about what I know (or think I know) and that has been a very helpful exercise!

Thank you all very much for your continued interest and help.  You are giving me renewed hope that I may, finally, break down the robust, long-standing brick wall… with your help & expertise!

Malcolm