John and William Fraser of Melfort Saskatchewn

[bbart]

Findagrave possibilites

If Shelbourne dropped his first name, and went by Reid, he and his parents are buried in Whatcom, Washington State (although Reid died in Oregon):

Reid Fraser Birth: May 29, 1905 Saskatchewan, Canada
Death:    Dec. 19, 1929 Portland Multnomah County Oregon, USA
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5972999&ref=acom

John A Fraser, Birth:    1857  Death:    1929
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=77126&GRid=5580739&

Mary J Fraser  Birth:    unknown Death:    Jul. 10, 1959  Note: aged 89
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=77126&GRid=5580740&

[bbart]

Shelburne's birth record (Saskatchewan) :
Registration Number: 1388
Last Name: FRASER
First Name: SHELBURNE REID
Sex: M
Birth Date (yyyy/mm/dd): 1905 / 5 / 29
Place of Birth: CARIEVALE   Mother
MARY JANE MORRISON
Father
JOHN ALEXANDER FRASER

Marriage in Ontario of John A to Mary J Morrison states John born in Nova Scotia and father is Thomas A:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-Y39B-177?i=666&cc=1784216

[Rodger]

I think that you both have the correct family. So many of the names and dates make sense. But some do not. Ist John's father was, I'm pretty certain, named Angus. He is in the 1861 census and that was the name handed down through my family. I wonder if it was Thomas Angus not Alexander.
Angus did live in Goderich but his son John may have been born in Nova Scotia on their way to Ontario.
The border crossing in 1911 seems to be of them and the date of immigration for Catherine of 1851 would be correct but one census says the date was 1900  which doesn't make sense.
Shelburne does appear to go by Reid at least in the 1920 Washington census.
Two troubling questions are John's fathers' name and in the border crossing of 1911, Daniel a brother of John and therefore a son of Catherine is 26 years old which would mean he was born in 1885, 14 years after his father died. In a census it says he was born in 1875 which is still 4 years too late.
I appreiciate the fantastic work you two have done and I'll take some time to try and fit all the pieces together.
Rodger

[cosmac]

I personally don't think you have the correct John Fraser and family.  They are residing closer to Manitoba than Melfort in 1911 plus the existence of extra brothers and missing sister Catherine.

[bbart]

I agree with Cosmac.... there are just too many red flags going up.
 I think Cosmac was right about the 1881 Upper census as well.

The daughter Catherine was the last known child, born around 1866.  This, along with no found death record for father Angus, suggests he died before the 1869 start of bmd registrations.  So what if mother Catherine, with little kids and no support, remarried to Alexander in Thorold?  This would make the following a really good fit:

1881 Canada census
Name:    Catharine Upper
Marital Status:    Married
Age:    45
Birth Year:    1836
Birthplace:    Scotland
Religion:    Canada Presbyterian Church
Nationality:    Scotch (Scotish)
Province:    Ontario
District Number:    142
District:    Welland
Sub-District Number:    H
Subdistrict:    Thorold
Division:    2

Household Members:    
Name    Age
Alexander Upper    45
Catharine Upper    45
William Fraser    18
Catherine J. Fraser    14

1911 Canada Census
Name:    Catherine Upper
Marital Status:    Widowed
Age:    75
Birth Date:    May 1836
Birth Place:    Ontario
Relation to Head of House:    Head
Race or Tribe:    Irish 
Province:    Ontario
District:    Welland
District Number:    132
Sub-district:    33 - Thorold
Sub-District Number:    33
Place of Habitation:    Thorold Tp

Household Members:    
Name    Age
Catherine Upper    75
Catharine Frazer    42

Mother Catherine's death reg  (Do you know if her father was a McPhee?)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SX3-TKZ?i=1140&cc=1307826

Mother Catherine burial:
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=72700148&ref=acom

Daughter Catherine burial
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=fraser&GSiman=1&GScid=2284915&GRid=159020771&

I haven't been able to find a marriage for Catherine and Alexander, nor a death reg. for daughter Catherine (which would really help if it named Angus as her father)

With the burial of Bridget, it's pretty much a given that William went to Saskatchewan, but John is still a mystery.

[bbart]

Just to add to the above scenario, Scotlandspeople has a marriage for an Angus Fraser and Catherine McPhee, in 1856, in the RD of  Daviot and Dunlichity.

[Rodger]

Here is what I believe to be correct.
Angus and Catherine were married in Daviot/Dunlitchity in Inverness-shire Scotland. The came to Canada and to Goderich On where Angus died in 1871 (Canadian Genealogy Indes 1600's-1900's).
In 1861 in Goderich they are living with their children John, William, Janet and Catherine. Janet died about 1867 and is buried in Maitland Cemetery Goderich.
1871 in Goderich Catherine, widowed,  is living with John, William and Catherine (the last I know about her).

In 1906 John is in the Assiniboia area of Saskatchewan with his wife Mary and sons Houston, Shelburne, his widowed mother Catherine, a brother David born about 1867 but not mentioned in the 1871 census. Also a son John born about 1881 and a grandson George Simpson.

William marries Bridget McKay in Manitoulun on Dec. 4, 1889. His parents are Angus and Catherine Fraser.
1901 William and Bridget are living in Algoma.
1911 William and Bridget are in Melfort Sask. where he is a Merchant (a good fit with the Wood family).
Bridget dies on June 10, 1923 in Winnipeg and is buried in Melfort.

What is less certain
I believe that the 1911 census in Assiniboia is probably the correct family since this is where they are living in 1906.

The John Fraser and family going to Washington State in 1911 is probably them as well although I do have a problem with the date.
 I believe that the 1920 Washington State census is most likely John and his family. The sons names are unusual and therefore probably them.

What I think is less likely that Catherine re-married or that the 1881 census in Thorold is her. If she was in Saskatchewan with John and his family in 1911, the Welland census of that year is probably not of her.

The most likely scenario is that Catherine moved to Washington State with her son John and his family where she died and is probably buried.

The most troubling is the father's name as Thomas Alexander. Perhaps his middle name was Angus and not Alexander.

Thanks bbart and Cosmac for all your help with this.
P.S. Angus Fraser was a brother of my G-G- Grandmother Catherine who married Andrew Smith in Daviot and moved to Peel County Ontario in 1832.

[bbart]

I followed the Thomas Alexander Fraser with wife Catherine (nee Kennedy and both were from Argyll).  They are still in Nova Scotia in the 1881 census, along with son John A and other kids.
Thomas died in Brandon, Manitoba in 1885, then the rest of the family moved across Canada and down to Washington state as we followed previously.
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=84601856&ref=acom
I really can't see how this fits with your family.

From Scotlandspeople, I took a look at the marriage of Angus Fraser and Catherine McPhee (Daviot and Dunlichity, Inverness).  His parents were John Fraser and Marjory Rose, both deceased, and Catherine's parents were John McPhee and Janet Cummings, which matches with the parents named on Catherine Upper's death registration. The witnesses to the marriage were John Smith and James Fraser.  It's really looking like this is your Catherine to me.

Do you have the birth reg. for your GG grandmother to know her parents names? 

Angus didn't necessarily die in 1871. The CGI reference is to page 351 of the 1871 Lovell's Directory.  If you look at that, you will see the entry for Fraser, Catherine (widow Angus).  The CGI is just noting that in 1871, there was a deceased Angus in Goderich.  At Ancestry, go to  Lovell's Canadian Dominion Directory, 1871, page 351 (image 188/999) to see what I mean.

[bbart]

A rather interesting find..... in the Lovells directory of 1871 mentioned in my last post, there are only four Fraser's, Catherine, a Charles, a Donald and a John.  So there wasn't a lot of Frasers' in Goderich.  I found a business directory for Ontario for 1869 which does not list the general public, just select persons, so I didn't expect to find Angus.   Take a look!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k84/

You might have to scroll down a wee bit.