Author Topic: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?  (Read 4120 times)

Offline Liviani

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Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« on: Tuesday 06 June 17 16:40 BST (UK) »
My 5x great-grandmother is a Mary Cloudsley, born Farnell 1789.

Mary married James Evans in Farnell on the 26th June 1819. She does appear to have married and had children rather late for the time period, but it does seem to match up in various census. 

I have Mary Cloudsley's death cert. It states she died in 1867 aged 78, in Trinity Village, Brechin. Her father is named as Hugh Cloudsley, no profession stated and mother is an Ann Ayre.

Having gone to check SP I found the following marriage indexed;

CLOUDSLY
ANDREW
ANNE AIR/
17/07/1784
286/
10 141
Farnell

There is a Mary Cloudsley baptism indexed as follows on SP;

CLOUDSLEY
MARY
ANDREW CLOUDSLEY/ANNE AIR
0
06/09/1789
286/
10 260
Farnell

I believe this to be my Mary given the dates, the parish listed and the names involved (not overly common). But why is Andrew named as Hugh on the death cert?

mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline ev

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 17:12 BST (UK) »
The information on the death certificate would only be to the best knowledge of the informant , there are many examples on here of the wrong information being given.

Another of the joys of this hobby  :)



ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline ev

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 17:46 BST (UK) »
I note that one of the children of James Evans and Mary Cloudsley had Addison as a middle name.

There is a Hugh Cloudsley and Isobel Addison with children in the same area as Andrew Cloudsley around 1770/1780's.

Could Andrew and Hugh be Brothers ?
Perhaps the informant on Mary's death cert. mixed them up  :-\


ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline Liviani

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 18:24 BST (UK) »
The information on the death certificate would only be to the best knowledge of the informant , there are many examples on here of the wrong information being given.

Another of the joys of this hobby  :)



ev

Ah, yes. The informant on Mary's death cert was Robert Evans. Her brother in law. So, not a blood relation to Mary and her ancestors. This makes sense why it's the incorrect name. Will stick with Andrew.

Many thanks.
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie


Offline Liviani

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 June 17 18:27 BST (UK) »
I note that one of the children of James Evans and Mary Cloudsley had Addison as a middle name.

There is a Hugh Cloudsley and Isobel Addison with children in the same area as Andrew Cloudsley around 1770/1780's.

Could Andrew and Hugh be Brothers ?
Perhaps the informant on Mary's death cert. mixed them up  :-\


ev

This is interesting, I hadn't got that far myself yet with the children.

Thank you for this info, very helpful.

Update.

Found the following marriage indexed regarding Hugh Cloudsley and Isobel Addison;

CLUDSLY
HUGH
ISOBEL ADDISON/
10/06/1769
280/
20 67
Craig

They had from what is indexed, 9 children in Craig Parish between 1769 and 1789, one of whom probably died in infancy due to the name Hugh appearing twice; in 1779 and again in 1783.

I can only find the following children for Andrew Cloudsley and Anne(a/e) Air;

Giles Cloudsley b.1785 Farnell
Mary Cloudsley b.1789 Farnell  (my Mary).

Seems likely that Ann Air died after Mary's birth or further children just weren't registered at the Church.

I've since found the following children for James Evans and Mary Cloudsley;

Ann Addison b.1820     Guthrie
Alexander b.1822                  Maryton
William b.1823                      Maryton
Mary b.1827                         Inverkeilor    (direct ancestor)
Jane b.1829                          Farnell

Looks like Ann is the probably first born given James and Mary married in 1819 and this is the first child listed. So it appears the name Addison does have some importance here. I do find it unusual that it appears to have been taken from James' sister-in-law however. I'll see what else I can find out.

Thanks again,

Jill.
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 07 June 17 23:37 BST (UK) »
Not sure if you've searched through these;

Cloudsley

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k85/

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 08 June 17 13:40 BST (UK) »
Not sure if you've searched through these;

Cloudsley

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01k85/

Annie

Had a quick gander but not had a chance to peruse them all at length yet, have saved the link however. Many thanks for this.

I am now utterly obsessed with this surname. It is so unusual. I do think the Cloudsleys of Scotland are from elsewhere stemming from one initial family who came to the area. There are a few theories out there online which you've kindly linked to me Annie, for that many thanks. So much interesting information out there on this name considering it's rather rare.

There is also something interesting regarding this gentleman; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudesley_Shovell

His first name is Cloudesley, however quoted from the page; 'The unusual first name of Cloudesley derives from the surname of his maternal grandmother Lucy Cloudisley, who was the daughter of Thomas Cloudisley'
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Anne Lothian

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 08 June 17 15:53 BST (UK) »
As ev says, the information on the death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant.    In Scotland the name Andrew is often shortened to Drew. Say Drew,  then Hugh, and you'll hear how similar they are. The person hearing the name and then writing it down may well have mistaken Drew for Hugh. A possibility?    Anne

Offline Liviani

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Re: Is Mary Cloudsley's father Andrew or Hugh?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 10 June 17 02:18 BST (UK) »
As ev says, the information on the death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant.    In Scotland the name Andrew is often shortened to Drew. Say Drew,  then Hugh, and you'll hear how similar they are. The person hearing the name and then writing it down may well have mistaken Drew for Hugh. A possibility?    Anne

Very good point Anne. Didn't think of that. I do feel there is a connection to the Hugh Cloudsley that married Isobel Addison given the middle name of James Evans and Mary Cloudsley's daughter Ann Addison, but yes I do think it's been a mistake with how it was heard.
mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie