Author Topic: Alfred George MANTHEL  (Read 1451 times)

Offline juleznz

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Alfred George MANTHEL
« on: Thursday 08 June 17 06:02 BST (UK) »
HI everyone:) Looking for Alfred George MANTHEL born c1840 Paris France any advice on name variations etc as can find no evidence of him.Was in New Zealand by 1860s
Thanks all
BIXLEY- any
SALT -Staffordshire eng
CRESSWELL -Nelson NZ Cornwall Eng

BROWN-England-Gisborne NZ Whaling connection
Scotland Interests
Fife- Fortune,Mason,Motion,Gray,
Fenwick and Loundoun Parishes-HOWIE/WYLIE/YOUNG/WOODBURN/MITCHEL
USA/British America interests
HOWLAND/VANSICKLE/TILLEY/LOTHROPP/COBB
 Canada ---MOLLARD-
,SIGGLEKOW/SCHWASS-Nelson NZ,

Offline maddys52

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 08 June 17 07:43 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure how accurate this is, or the source of the information, but on familysearch there is this note about Alfred George MANTHEL (who married Mary ANDREWS in NZ):

"Alfred had a brother Leon, and sister Pauline. According to the Marie Perry family history, Pauline was believed to have married a Rothschild and went to America to live."

Offline juleznz

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 July 17 13:33 BST (UK) »
Hello sorry i missed this somehow
yes that is the family legend
however cannot find any MANTHELs born France so assuming the name was changed slightly
May i ask where you heard the Rothschild snippet?
By account Alfred always said he was born in Paris France in 1840
Thanks again :)
I'm not sure how accurate this is, or the source of the information, but on familysearch there is this note about Alfred George MANTHEL (who married Mary ANDREWS in NZ):

"Alfred had a brother Leon, and sister Pauline. According to the Marie Perry family history, Pauline was believed to have married a Rothschild and went to America to live."
BIXLEY- any
SALT -Staffordshire eng
CRESSWELL -Nelson NZ Cornwall Eng

BROWN-England-Gisborne NZ Whaling connection
Scotland Interests
Fife- Fortune,Mason,Motion,Gray,
Fenwick and Loundoun Parishes-HOWIE/WYLIE/YOUNG/WOODBURN/MITCHEL
USA/British America interests
HOWLAND/VANSICKLE/TILLEY/LOTHROPP/COBB
 Canada ---MOLLARD-
,SIGGLEKOW/SCHWASS-Nelson NZ,

Offline maddys52

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #3 on: Monday 10 July 17 03:07 BST (UK) »
The note is on a submitted tree to familysearch  :)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3Z8C-5SQ


Offline RickoHan

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 25 September 21 11:34 BST (UK) »
Hi there
I'm also researching Alfred George Manthel's original and antecedants.
I'm Marie Perry's grandson.
The "family legend" can be found here https://tiaki.natlib.govt.nz/#details=ecatalogue.229042
To date I haven't found documentation for his entry to NZ.
It is said he left for NZ from Le Harvre.
I'm looking for Manthel, Mantell, Mantel and Mandel as surnames
There is a vanishingly slim chance that he might be a Rothschild if his sister married a Rothschild, as marrying cousins was the way the Rothschilds kept money and power in the family and undiluted.  The Parisian Jewish narrative he told would tie in to this, and our DNA backs up ashkenazi jewish heritage.
Alfred George was up in front of the magistrates in NZ all too often for gambling, and fraud and was sentenced to 2 years labour in Sydney for fraud. This would appear to contradict his narrative of noble background. 
kind regards


Offline joger

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 September 21 12:55 BST (UK) »
Hello,

the Paris registers were burned in a fire in 1871, so Alfred's is not available , nor a recontructed one.( I searched in vain).

Geneanet has several trees ,all saying he was born 1840 in Paris etc... ( infos from ianmurgatroyd).

He was one of the singer Graeme Allwright 's great grandfathers :
https://books.google.fr/books?id=OMpZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT28&lpg=PT28&dq=alfred+george+manthel&source=bl&ots=fy2DkBw6ao&sig=ACfU3U2JJvN0kgiPdMwVY6hsyOg3aaqPuw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2lvT9yZzzAhVMyhoKHdC7BkMQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q=alfred%20george%20manthel&f=false

Graeme says nothing more than is said here on these posts.

There are some MANTHELs in France ( see on Geneanet and Filae).

Could he have migrate from England to New Zeland?

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 26 September 21 14:12 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Henriette known as Hermine MANDEL was the wife of Edmond ROTHSCHILD. She was born in 1855 in Marmoutier (Bas-Rhin) and her parents Joseph MANDEL and Jeannette KAHN got married in Bouxviller (Bas-Rhin) in 1841. Her father probably died in 1862 in Marmoutier (his wife is listed as Babette KAHN). She passed away in 1939 in Paris.

Her son Georges MANDEL

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Mandel

Offline RickoHan

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #7 on: Monday 27 September 21 00:17 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Henriette known as Hermine MANDEL was the wife of Edmond ROTHSCHILD. She was born in 1855 in Marmoutier (Bas-Rhin) and her parents Joseph MANDEL and Jeannette KAHN got married in Bouxviller (Bas-Rhin) in 1841. Her father probably died in 1862 in Marmoutier (his wife is listed as Babette KAHN). She passed away in 1939 in Paris.

Her son Georges MANDEL

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Mandel

Hi there, I was aware of Georges Mandel and the Rothschild connection (which made me go down this route as well). Unfortunately there is no link between him and Alfred George that Ican find and the dates don't line up well. I'd love to know why he chose Mandel as his "nom de guerre" as a journalist!

Offline RickoHan

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Re: Alfred George MANTHEL
« Reply #8 on: Monday 27 September 21 00:19 BST (UK) »
Hello,

the Paris registers were burned in a fire in 1871, so Alfred's is not available , nor a recontructed one.( I searched in vain).

Geneanet has several trees ,all saying he was born 1840 in Paris etc... ( infos from ianmurgatroyd).

He was one of the singer Graeme Allwright 's great grandfathers :
https://books.google.fr/books?id=OMpZDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT28&lpg=PT28&dq=alfred+george+manthel&source=bl&ots=fy2DkBw6ao&sig=ACfU3U2JJvN0kgiPdMwVY6hsyOg3aaqPuw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2lvT9yZzzAhVMyhoKHdC7BkMQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q=alfred%20george%20manthel&f=false

Graeme says nothing more than is said here on these posts.

There are some MANTHELs in France ( see on Geneanet and Filae).

Could he have migrate from England to New Zeland?

Yes Its highly likely he went to NZ from England on a boat. I've looked at records and cannot see him entering or exiting from 1855-1870