Author Topic: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart  (Read 383 times)

Offline Liviani

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Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« on: Monday 19 June 17 03:12 BST (UK) »
I'm having some problems locating and finding records of my 4x great-grandfather Francis Stewart b. abt 1805 in Angus. Unfortunately I have no further information on where in Angus, but it's likely to be closer to the Kirriemuir area. No confirmation though.

Here is what I have on him so far;

He married a Jean/Jane Milne in August 1825 in Kirriemuir. 

I believe this to be them in the 1841 census (FreeCen).

Piece: SCT1841/299 Place: Kirriemuir -Angus Enumeration District: 20
Civil Parish: Kirriemuir Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 20 Page: 8
Address: Kintyrie

        Surname       First name(s)       Sex       Age       Occupation       Where Born       Remarks   
        STEWART       Francis       M       36       Agricultural Labourer        Angus           
        STEWART       Jean       F       46               Angus           
        STEWART       Jean       F       14               Angus           
        STEWART       Francis       M       9               Angus           
        STEWART       Sarah       F       6               Angus           
    
        

Francis Stewart Jnr is my 3x great-grandfather and I have seen his death cert which confirms his parent's names. His father's occupation is noted as Ag Lab on this death cert.

I am having difficulty in tracking down Francis Snr in any of the later censuses. I have a feeling Jean/Jane died and he remarried as she seems to disappear. There are 3 or so different Francis Stewarts in Angus around this time with similar years of birth, but I have no way of knowing if any of them are the right man, given the way ages were rounded in 1841 coupled with the birth county just stating "Angus".

Upon searching SP for deaths I find the following two entries;

STEWART
FRANCIS
63
1867
299/ 81
Kirriemuir

STEWART
FRANCIS
75
1877
288/ 156
Forfar

Either of the above could be him. I have a couple of concerns about going ahead and ordering the images; 1. If Jean Milne died the wife shown on the death would be his second wife (perhaps a Sarah)? and 2. I need to be  careful with the amount I'm spending on credits of late, so I need to be sure to go for the right record which is where a census may come in helpful (particularly 1871) to narrow it down.

I'm not sure what else to do regarding this man, the main things I'd like to find out are; his parents names and if he remarried and had any further children. Any help appreciated, I can't help but think I'm missing something obvious here. Been sat here on and off for a few hours trying to work it all out.

Many thanks,

Jill.


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #1 on: Monday 19 June 17 04:06 BST (UK) »
What about searching for the wives in the 1871 census?
 
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Offline Rosinish

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #2 on: Monday 19 June 17 04:42 BST (UK) »
Upon searching SP for deaths I find the following two entries;

STEWART
FRANCIS
63 (born c1804)
1867
299/ 81
Kirriemuir

STEWART
FRANCIS
75 (born c1802)
1877
288/ 156
Forfar

My suggestion would be to check the registration no. for the district on the 1841 census against the 2 reg. dist. nos on those deaths to try & help?

299 & 288  ???

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #3 on: Monday 19 June 17 11:20 BST (UK) »
1. If Jean Milne died the wife shown on the death would be his second wife (perhaps a Sarah)?
If he died after 1861, his death certificate should name both of his wives, assuming that the informant knew the information of course.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline dowdstree

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #4 on: Monday 19 June 17 12:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Jill,

I may have found Francis Stewart in future census records ( on Ancestry a useful tool at times).

1851 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1805 - Farm Servant - Parish of Kirriemuir, Landward, address Balnagarrow. He is on his own no wife or children. It looks like Jean Milne has died between 1841 and 1851 as you thought.

1861 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1806 - Agric. Labourer.
                        Sarah   Stewart - born Glenisla             - Wife
                        James   Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 6 - Son
                        David    Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 4 - Son
                      Catharine Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 1 - Daughter
Address Cottars Cottage, Kirriemuir.

There is a marriage on SP OPR Index for a Francis Stewart to a Sarah Grant on 27th June 1852 at Kirriemuir so this would be correct with what you already have regarding a second marriage to a Sarah.

1871 Census - Sarah and her children are on their own - she is listed as head of household - no sign of Francis.

From this I would assume that the 1867 Kirriemuir death for Francis is the correct one although as Forfarian says the information given is only as good as the informant's knowledge of the family.

Just need to wait until you can afford to check it out on SP.

Dorrie
Small, Dundee
Dickson, Dundee
Patrick, Scotland
Easson, Scotland
Small, Co. Antrim
Madden, Co. Westmeath
Dickson, Co. Down

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #5 on: Monday 19 June 17 12:47 BST (UK) »
I believe this to be them in the 1841 census (FreeCen).

Piece: SCT1841/299 Place: Kirriemuir -Angus Enumeration District: 20
Civil Parish: Kirriemuir Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 20 Page: 8
Address: Kintyrie


       Surname       First name(s)       Sex       Age       Occupation       Where Born       Remarks   
        STEWART       Francis       M       36       Agricultural Labourer        Angus   
       
                    
I am having difficulty in tracking down Francis Snr in any of the later censuses. I have a feeling Jean/Jane died and he remarried as she seems to disappear. There are 3 or so different Francis Stewarts in Angus around this time with similar years of birth, but I have no way of knowing if any of them are the right man

Upon searching SP for deaths I find the following two entries;

STEWART
FRANCIS
63
1867
299/ 81
Kirriemuir


STEWART
FRANCIS
75
1877
288/ 156
Forfar


Either of the above could be him.

Just noticed the 1841 Reg. Dist. No. is 299, a possible fit for the 1867 death?

Have you checked the occupations of the "3 or so different Francis Stewarts in Angus around this time" which may eliminate those areas?

Have you checked whether he was alive at the time of all his children's marriages?


Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #6 on: Monday 19 June 17 13:24 BST (UK) »
I may have found Francis Stewart in future census records ( on Ancestry a useful tool at times).
1851 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1805
1861 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1806
What a pity that A******y does not transcribe all the information on the original. You would then be able to see what Francis' marital status was in 1851. Also that A******y routinely (mis)calculates dates of birth by subtracting the age from the census year. For reasons I have stated many times on RC, this gives a wrong answer 3 times out of 4. The original census never gives a date of birth, only the age the person claimed to be on the day of the census.

Quote
Just need to wait until you can afford to check it out on SP.
Yes.

FWIW since all the references - marriage, census, remarriage, two more censuses and death - are in Kirriemuir (district no 299), I'd say its almost certain that they are all one and the same Francis Stewart.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #7 on: Monday 19 June 17 13:40 BST (UK) »
BTW The census index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk gives Francis' age as 36 in 1841, 46 in 1851 and 55 in 1851. So you are looking at someone born between 31 March 1804 and 6 April 1806. Also the 1851 and 1861 say he was born in Tannadice.

The baptisms index at SP lists only two Francis Stewarts born in Angus between 1803 and 1807. One in Tannadice, baptised 8 May 1804, parents Charles Stewart and Isobel Bruce, and one in Stracathro, baptised 9 May 1804, parents James Stewart and Margaret Stewart.

You can eliminate the Stracathro one from your search, because he married my 3rd cousin 4 times removed, Margaret Guthrie, and died in Inverbervie, Kincardineshire, in 1851.

So it looks very likely that your Francis is the son of Charles Stewart and Isobel Bruce.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Liviani

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Re: Tracking down the correct Francis Stewart
« Reply #8 on: Monday 19 June 17 20:27 BST (UK) »
1. If Jean Milne died the wife shown on the death would be his second wife (perhaps a Sarah)?
If he died after 1861, his death certificate should name both of his wives, assuming that the informant knew the information of course.

Thank you Forfarian for this info. I was concerned that the death cert would only name the most recent wife. I didn't know that it would name both, dependant on the informant of course. This is very helpful for this and future use.

Hi Jill,

I may have found Francis Stewart in future census records ( on Ancestry a useful tool at times).

1851 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1805 - Farm Servant - Parish of Kirriemuir, Landward, address Balnagarrow. He is on his own no wife or children. It looks like Jean Milne has died between 1841 and 1851 as you thought.

1861 Census  -  Francis Stewart - born Tannadice 1806 - Agric. Labourer.
                        Sarah   Stewart - born Glenisla             - Wife
                        James   Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 6 - Son
                        David    Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 4 - Son
                      Catharine Stewart - born Kirriemuir age 1 - Daughter
Address Cottars Cottage, Kirriemuir.

There is a marriage on SP OPR Index for a Francis Stewart to a Sarah Grant on 27th June 1852 at Kirriemuir so this would be correct with what you already have regarding a second marriage to a Sarah.

1871 Census - Sarah and her children are on their own - she is listed as head of household - no sign of Francis.

From this I would assume that the 1867 Kirriemuir death for Francis is the correct one although as Forfarian says the information given is only as good as the informant's knowledge of the family.

Just need to wait until you can afford to check it out on SP.

Dorrie

This is brilliant, thank you Dorrie. I really appreciate this. I'd agree that this Francis is my Francis given the occupation and the marriage does indicate that Jean/Jane died.

BTW The census index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk gives Francis' age as 36 in 1841, 46 in 1851 and 55 in 1851. So you are looking at someone born between 31 March 1804 and 6 April 1806. Also the 1851 and 1861 say he was born in Tannadice.

The baptisms index at SP lists only two Francis Stewarts born in Angus between 1803 and 1807. One in Tannadice, baptised 8 May 1804, parents Charles Stewart and Isobel Bruce, and one in Stracathro, baptised 9 May 1804, parents James Stewart and Margaret Stewart.

You can eliminate the Stracathro one from your search, because he married my 3rd cousin 4 times removed, Margaret Guthrie, and died in Inverbervie, Kincardineshire, in 1851.

So it looks very likely that your Francis is the son of Charles Stewart and Isobel Bruce.

Brilliant again Forfarian. I believe this is the second time this has happened between us with similarly named ancestors, the other being either a Charles or Leonard Small I think? Perthshire or Coupar Angus?  ;D

Due to all of the above I have gone ahead and bought the image of the 1867 Kirriemuir death of Francis Stewart. It confirms that his parents names' are Charles Stewart and Isabella Bruce. The death certificate does only name 'Sarah Grant' as his wife though which does indicate that the informant left out Jean/Jane Milne. This was my main concern prior to having the knowledge I have now from this thread. So I am very grateful for the research people have done. It's really solved my dilemma. Without this knowledge I would've been doubting my research and getting myself in another muddle.

Incidentally the image ordered is of terrible quality. I can't make out half of what is said for example the cause of death and the name of the informant other than it's ____ Stewart (Son). I will assume it's one of Sarah's children given the lack of Jane/Jean mentioned.
I have reported the issue to SP as it's needing cleared up a little. Very grainy and pixellated. It also mentions that Sarah's maiden name is Grant. Francis' mother's name would also be impossible to read without the knowledge I have now. Hopefully they can fix this image though.

Again, many thanks for this I can begin doing more work on this branch.

Jill.

Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie