Author Topic: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?  (Read 938 times)

Offline Relsearcher

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Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« on: Saturday 24 June 17 17:59 BST (UK) »
Hi!  I seem to be having a spot of bother with a couple of death records so was hoping someone out there may have a look at this problem with a fresh pair of eyes?!

I was looking into a couple of siblings called Rachel Frances Ann Renshaw Newton (born Q1 1863, Derby) and younger brother William Elijah Renshaw Newton (born Q2 1867, Radford, Nottingham) and found that they were both listed in the Probate Index for 1911 but it said that they had died 'on or since the year 1886'.  I noticed by chance the entry for William when I was looking at the entry for Rachel.  I have attached these entries. 

Martha Renshaw Newton, mentioned in the Probate Listing, was their younger sister and would have been 31 by this time of this Administration.  I wonder why she is mentioned as there were other older siblings who would have surely applied for the Administration rather than her?  And why have Rachel and William both got their effects valued at 449 pounds?

The Probate Index also lists them as both of 'Foster Street Nottingham' but I am also having trouble locating that and have only found a Forster Street.

But the main problem I have is that I just cannot find any listing in the death index for either Rachel or William on or since 1886 which might be a possibility.  It seems William Newton is quite a popular name, but I felt initially that Rachel F A R Newton might me more obscure so easier to locate, but no.  No permeations I have tried seem to reveal anything that looks likely.

I also cannot find them in the 1891 Census so assume that they most likely did die around 1886 as the Probate entry suggests, and also cannot find a burial for either.

I have also looked at the newspapers on FindMyPast to see if there was a house fire or accident that involved them, but again nothing.  It just seems odd that they died so close together and that their death entries do not seem to be apparent.

Can anyone help?  My brain has become boggy with all of this and I just cannot think straight about it now, having spend days trying to iron it all out!!!

Many thanks, Nina

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Offline avm228

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:04 BST (UK) »
In or since 1886 suggests that that was when they were last heard from - I don't think it necessarily means they died close in time together.  Have you investigated the possibility that they emigrated?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Offline Relsearcher

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:08 BST (UK) »
Hi!  Yes, I did have a look in the passenger lists etc records but nothing ....

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:39 BST (UK) »
I see there is a birth of a Joseph Renshaw Newton registered in Nottingham, Mar qtr 1884.  No mmn so looks illegitimate.  Could this be a son of the missing Rachel (possibly leading to her estrangement from the family)?

Possibly linked?

Joseph Newton born 27 Nov 1883 baptised (Roman Catholic) 11 Jan 1884 St Barnabas, Nottingham

Parent: Rachel Newton

(Free 1939 Register search suggests there is a Joseph R Newton in Notts corresponding closely with these details).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Relsearcher

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:50 BST (UK) »
Hi - yes, I have his Birth Cert and there is a Rachel Renshaw Newton listed as his Ma and no father.  Could be this missing sibling or it could also be her mother who was also Rachel Renshaw Newton (nee Colmer), but why would she give up one child amongst many - nothing was wrong with him and after living in children's homes he went on to be a policeman.  So my money is on the daughter who I cannot tie down to a death date!  Nina

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:55 BST (UK) »
OK so what more is there on Joseph's birth cert (addresses etc)?  I'd think it much more likely to be Rachel junior rather than senior. Rachel senior was still having children in wedlock at around this time (Amy Renshaw Newton mmn Colmer, Sep qtr 1884 Nottingham, followed by Samuel in 1886).

Has Joseph been found in 1891?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 June 17 18:59 BST (UK) »
The Birth Cert says:

DOB: 29 Nov 1883
Place: 101 Park St, Lenton, Nottingham
Occupation of Mother:  Lace Hand
Registered:  11 Jan 1884 

I have looked at who was living at that address in the 1881 Census but no-one there is familiar, nor in the 1891 Census.  I have tried to find any Electoral Reg's to see if any Newton males might be in residence but no joy.  It certainly looks more likely to be Rachel Jnr than Snr I think!

Offline avm228

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 June 17 19:01 BST (UK) »
Have you looked into whether orphanage records may survive for Joseph?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Missing Death Records for NEWTON Siblings?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 June 17 19:05 BST (UK) »
A relative has looked into the The Gordon Boy's Home, Nottingham records - he had some of Joseph's apprenticeship papers that stated that that was where he lived, but came up blank, and I have found the 1891 census for their occupants but Joseph is not amongst them at that time.  In fact, I have been unable to locate him at all in the 1891 Census.