Author Topic: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?  (Read 1385 times)

Offline MrsD16

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« on: Wednesday 28 June 17 16:41 BST (UK) »
Just wondered if anyone can help me open some doors on my grandmothers side

She died when my dad was a boy so information about her has been very little, she was known and was married to grandad John Joseph Treacy as Mary Bridget Clifford they were married 19th Dec 1959 in Kingston Upon Thames Surrey England where she also died in 1974

She was born 24 Oct 1928 in Tralee Ireland but so far I am struggling to find her birth record, family members have said she was born Maureen but still having no luck finding a birth record

I know from her marriage record her father was John Joseph Clifford and have potential burial record for him in Tralee Ireland in 1954 but no other info

A friend of mine her mum is my dads cousin as her dad is Mary's brother and through following him and some of the other siblings we have some info on Mary's mother but she appears on some records as Ellen and others as Helen and we have a potential burial record as Helen Clifford in Tralee in 1983

I am at a lost as to where to go next and wondered if anyone could help me

Thank you

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 27,775
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 17:01 BST (UK) »

I know from her marriage record her father was John Joseph Clifford and have potential burial record for him in Tralee Ireland in 1954 but no other info


Does the burial give any indication of his age
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 17:07 BST (UK) »
Strangely there is a 1929 birth (it could have been registered late) in Tralee on FindMyPast of a Mary CLIFFORD but there are no references given

If she was a Catholic and married in a Catholic Church in England - the church may have a record of her baptism and also some churches recorded both parent's names although only the father's was required for civil registration. It would be worth contacting the church (if used) to see.

Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline MrsD16

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 18:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Sorry I just realised I got Mary's fathers name mixed up with another ancestor, her fathers name was Patrick Joseph Clifford

If the burial index is the correct one it say he was 54


Offline MrsD16

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 18:59 BST (UK) »
Strangely there is a 1929 birth (it could have been registered late) in Tralee on FindMyPast of a Mary CLIFFORD but there are no references given

If she was a Catholic and married in a Catholic Church in England - the church may have a record of her baptism and also some churches recorded both parent's names although only the father's was required for civil registration. It would be worth contacting the church (if used) to see.

Have you got a link to that birth record so I can have a look? thank you

I'm not sure about baptism, I found a transcript of my grandfather's baptism and at the bottom they've added the details of his marriage to my grandmother (church date etc) but I haven't yet found a baptism for Mary

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 27,775
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 June 17 07:11 BST (UK) »
The entry on FindMyPast is the same as that found on familysearch - it is just an index
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 June 17 09:47 BST (UK) »
Have you got a link to that birth record so I can have a look? thank you

I'm not sure about baptism, I found a transcript of my grandfather's baptism and at the bottom they've added the details of his marriage to my grandmother (church date etc) but I haven't yet found a baptism for Mary

The record is on the paid site Findmypast - what is strange about it is that it shows no detail of quarter, volume or page numbers.

In the same way as your grandfather's baptism shows the details of his marriage; the church where they married may have a record of his, and your grandmother's, baptism on their records. I would suggest that you contact the church where they married and ask what information that they have. It could be more than on the actual printed record that would be issued.
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline josey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Stanley H Tremelling 26 Oct 1892 - 26 May 1915
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 June 17 10:16 BST (UK) »
In the same way as your grandfather's baptism shows the details of his marriage; the church where they married may have a record of his, and your grandmother's, baptism on their records. I would suggest that you contact the church where they married and ask what information that they have. It could be more than on the actual printed record that would be issued.
Indeed, there was another thread a few months ago where baptism details were appended to a marriage record in a Dublin Catholic church. Myluck!'s suggestion is well worth following up. I have found that a donation included in a letter to a priest at a Catholic church asking for a look-up often reaps rewards  ;).
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone with a brick wall regarding my grandmothers line?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 June 17 10:33 BST (UK) »
Indeed Josey  ;)

This is the civil Death Record of Patrick CLIFFORD in 1954 LINK #100 aged 64
This implies he was born c1890 and his wife was still alive as described as married

Based on your thoughts that his wife's name may have been Ellen/Helen
There is a marriage on Jan 27 1927 in Tralee of Patrick J. CLIFFORD and Ellen MURPHY LINK
This was a second marriage for Patrick

There is also a marriage of Patrick CLIFFORD and Teresa MURPHY on May 3 1916 LINK
and a Teresa CLIFFORD died Jan 25 1919 aged 28 LINK #105

This is a good match for a birth of Patrick CLIFFORD on April 16 1894 LINK #103 (a twin with Eugene)
It is out a few years but this was not unusual

This is this family on the 1901 census LINK
and the 1911 census LINK
This return is badly completed but I believe to be the same family

I can see only one death for one of the children Ellen in 1902

There is a reference to 9 children of which 5 are alive - on the return 5 are listed and between the 1901 and the 1911 census returns you can count 9 children.

Until you have a definite connection to these people this is all supposition - however I would keep a note of this information and check back when you have looked into church marriage details.
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder