Author Topic: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913  (Read 2028 times)

Offline deejayEn

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
I'm looking for information on what happened to a girl called Cynthia Holford, AKA Cynthia Wills or possibly McArthur She was born circa 1908-09 in Liverpool, England. Her mother was Charlotte Wills (nee Webb) who was born in London in 1869. She married gardener/florist William Wills in 1886 and had two children William Robert b1887 and Dorothy Zillah b1894. She desired to be an actress/performer and around 1901-1902 found success on the stage under the name Mamie Stewart appearing in musicals by Leslie Stuart and later formed her own theatrical company appearing in revues and pantos. Because of her new profession she separated from her husband around 1902 but during a voyage overseas a few years later met Richard Pierce Holford who was a steward on the SS Carpathia and later other ships. Although she never married they had one child who was Cynthia. I have found her and her mother on the 1911 census living in West Ham in East London and bizarrely Charlotte is now using the name Mamie Holford (a combination of her stage name and common-law husband's name) and claims to be an American citizen. She seemingly spent some time touring in America but never became a US citizen. Her daughter Cynthia Holford is living with her and is listed as being born in Liverpool. This fits in with her father Richard as he came from Liverpool-Birkenhead but he is not in the Census and was presumably away at sea. Charlotte/Mamie and Cynthia are living with friends, this was not their family home, in fact I don't know where her home was at the time. I have manged to piece this together over many years but it's what happened next that is the real puzzle. Charlotte died in 1913,  we think possibly in childbirth. Her son was in the army by this point and we don't know what happened to Dorothy. But Cynthia was just 5 or 6 and we believe went to live with a family (possibly called McArthur) in the West Country and later was adopted by a family, possibly a branch of the same family, in America and was taken to live there. But we don't know where. Can anyone help me trace what happened to her?

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,104
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 23:22 BST (UK) »
There are a couple of discrepancies between info above and 1911 entry

Quote
Her mother was Charlotte Wills (nee Webb) who was born in London in 1869.

1911 shows her as 33yrs old - birthyear 1877/78.  The 1913 death shows her as 45

Quote
She married gardener/florist William Wills in 1886 and had two children William Robert b1887 and Dorothy Zillah b1894.

1911 shows 8yrs married and only one child born to the marriage

Have you located her husband and the other 2 children in 1911?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,104
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 23:38 BST (UK) »
She was born as Mabelle Constance Cynthia Holford March qtr 1908 West Derby 8b 377 mothers maiden name Wills as per freebmd and info from GRO online

www.freebmd.org.uk
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,104
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 June 17 23:41 BST (UK) »
Quote
and later was adopted by a family, possibly a branch of the same family, in America and was taken to live there

See freebmd - You will find a marriage for her in London in 1929 to John L Murphy

She died 15.12.1998 in Harrow - born 23.1.1908

She left a will

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)


Offline deejayEn

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 June 17 14:23 BST (UK) »
Carole - many, many thanks, I think you've solved it. So her real name was Maybelle Constance Cynthia Holford. I had looked for the name Cynthia with various surnames but it never occurred to me that it wasn't her first name. And it fits because I know that her father Richard had a sister called Mabel so she was probably named after her, albeit with an American spelling, although she was clearly known as Cynthia.

I am doing this research on behalf of my friend and he said that his aunt, who was the same age as her cousin Cynthia, was always told that she was unofficially adopted by another family and went to live in America but it seems that this was a lie, probably told because when Charlotte died her family did not approve of her relationship with Richard as a married woman (her husband William Wills was still alive). It seems that they then wanted to adopt Cynthia and the migration story was told to them to shut them up. It's a shame because my friend's aunt always wanted to know what happened to her but never found out and she died aged 101 a few years ago.

To answer your questions Charlotte's other two children were elsewhere in 1911 - William was in the army stationed in Regents Park Barracks (although he ends up marrying and briefly living with Richard Holford and his family) while Dorothy's whereabouts are unknown. I was always intrigued by her second name Zillah which is pretty unusual but it didn't help me find her after 1901. Cynthia/Maybelle's father Richard was away at sea in 1911 and worked on-and-off as a ship's steward until 1939 when he retired.

I have looked though the voting registers from the 1920s-1960s and have traced where Richard P Holford lived until his death in 1962. But what is odd is that various other people with the surname Holford live with him including a woman called Mabel (who I assume to be his sister) but it is not clear who they are - their names are Frederick, Masie, Constance and Richard (Jnr). Also I know he married Charlotte's sister Mary Anne Cove in 1938 but for some reason she does not appear on the voting register. Any help would be gratefully received.

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,104
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 June 17 20:39 BST (UK) »
Hi

She was Mabelle - not Maybelle.  She had a child in 1930  but as there is no death showing up to 2007 I can't show details here.  You will find the info on freebmd by searching Murphy births with mmn Holford

Richard P Holford was 82 when he died in 1962 and was born in Birkenhead 12.10.1879 so was some 10yrs younger than Charlotte.  There is no probate entry for him

Quote
Also I know he married Charlotte's sister Mary Anne Cove in 1938

Was Mary a half sister?  If she was born as Webb I can't see a Webb/Cove marriage



Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 June 17 20:53 BST (UK) »
If Charlotte wasn't born till 1877ish, then she could not have married Wills in 1886.
Or are we taking it that she toned down her age quite dramatically for the 1911 census!
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,104
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 June 17 20:56 BST (UK) »
Quote
Or are we taking it that she toned down her age quite dramatically for the 1911 census!

Yes she did. 

Quote
1911 shows her as 33yrs old - birthyear 1877/78.  The 1913 death shows her as 45

She was 10yrs older than Richard Holford
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Cynthia Holford (Cynthia Wills or McAarthur) b c1908. Migrated to USA after 1913
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 June 17 21:01 BST (UK) »
What I was working towards was to find her on early censuses, to see whether she had a sister Mary as per the marriage, and if, as thought, there was any second marriage of her parents to a Cove or anything lie that.
But without a definite year or place of birth for her, it is hard to pinpoint which Charlotte Webb she might be.
Do you have her marriage cert to Wills? If so who was her father?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk