Book - 'Scottish names: 1890 distribution' by D C Robinson

[Liviani]

I'm wondering if anyone has read this book and if it's any good for surname research?;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SCOTTISH-NAMES-1890-DISTRIBUTION-Robinson-ebook/dp/B071X4TY5P/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1499200820&sr=1-3&keywords=the+surnames+of+scotland

[Forfarian]

I'm wondering if anyone has read this book and if it's any good for surname research?;

Never knew of its existence.

I had a look inside as invited, and the very second line of the page says that Adamson is found south of the Forth and Clyde and Aitken is in Lanarkshire and adjacent counties. Well, I have been wrestling with Adamsons around Brechin and Aitkens in Kincardineshire.

In any case, the distribution of surnames in 1890 is unlikely to be very helpful, because by 1890 there had been a lot of movement of population.

I once did quite a lot of work on an English family with an unusual surname, almost all of whom can be traced back to one man who was born in Berkshire in about 1779. Several of his descendants moved to Middlesbrough in the 19th century to work in the iron works, and they all had large families, while the ones who stayed in the Home Counties either didn't have so many children, or used a different spelling variant of the surname.

A few years ago an academic in some university or other (somewhere in London, I think) did a study of where indigenous families in Middlesbrough lived following the influx of workers from outside the area. How did he identify the 'indigenous families'? He looked in the 1881 census for surnames that were relatively commoner in Middlesbrough than anywhere else, one of which - you've guessed it - was that of the Berkshire man. So that academic paper was substantially based on a false premise.

The moral of my tale is that surname distribution, while undoubtedly interesting, is not necessarily a reliable basis for genealogical, historical or social research.

[Rosinish]

Like Forfarian, I'd never heard of it either.

However, there are a few I would agree on, one being the surname Beattie.

For the price you have nothing to lose if you're researching around that period.

I believe this one would be more beneficial...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Surnames-Scotland-Their-Origin-Meaning-History/1874744831


Annie

[Liviani]

I'm wondering if anyone has read this book and if it's any good for surname research?;

A few years ago an academic in some university or other (somewhere in London, I think) did a study of where indigenous families in Middlesbrough lived following the influx of workers from outside the area. How did he identify the 'indigenous families'? He looked in the 1881 census for surnames that were relatively commoner in Middlesbrough than anywhere else, one of which - you've guessed it - was that of the Berkshire man. So that academic paper was substantially based on a false premise.

The moral of my tale is that surname distribution, while undoubtedly interesting, is not necessarily a reliable basis for genealogical, historical or social research.

That does sound like very flawed research. I guess I could look at my own tree and the 'Cloudsley' name and any researcher could claim that they hail from Montrose if they only go back to the early 1600s, given that they start to appear only in Montrose back then. Instead of looking at it in a more logical manner. It certainly doesn't sound like a very Scots name for a start, and on further investigation it appears to stem from England with 3 brothers moving to Montrose around 1600.

[Guy Etchells]

In my opinion the book is as described and illustrated by the two example pages.

Though the title does not reveal much the pages show it is a list of the most common surnames in Scotland during the relevant period.

It also gives a brief view of where the surnames may be found and the proportion per 10,000.
Whilst it may not be what you were looking for it could be useful to other researchers trying to find the area their ancestor may have come from.

Cheers
Guy

[Forfarian]

In my opinion the book is as described and illustrated by the two example pages.

Indeed, it does exactly that. But is it correct?

Whilst it may not be what you were looking for it could be useful to other researchers trying to find the area their ancestor may have come from.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

On the available page of the book, which is headed 'Alphabetical list of the most frequent of Scottish names' and then '(The numbers represent the proportion per 10,000 throughout the country)', I highlighted two names, and Rosinish highlighted another, which we are researching in Angus or nearby but which, if you believe the available page of this book, do not occur in Angus.

The author looked at surname distribution in 1890, but the available page does not say where he sourced his data. I looked at the 1891 census; I doubt that there would have been any major shifts of population between 1890 and the date of the 1891 census, 5 April.

I looked specifically at the name Adamson, which Robinson's book says is 'South of the Forth and Clyde', and the incidence he found per 10,000 was 12.

There were 3146 Adamsons in the index to the 1891 census on SP. The total population in Scotland was 4,033,103. So there were just under 8 Adamsons per 10,000 population over the whole country, not 12 as this book suggests. 

The numbers by county were as follows
Aberdeen           56   2%
Angus           458   15%
Argyll            0   0%
Ayr                   80   3%
Banff                   16   1%
Berwick             0   0%
Bute                     5   0%
Caithness           72   2%
Clackmannan   98   3%
Dumfries          108   3%
Dunbarton           32   1%
East Lothian   15   0%
Fife                1012   32%
Inverness             3   0%
Kincardine             1   0%
Kinross            22   1%
Kirkcudbright   12   0%
Lanark          429   14%
Midlothian           380   12%
Moray            10   0%
Nairn                    7   0%
Orkney            17   1%
Peebles            5   0%
Perth                  76   2%
Renfrew           61   2%
Ross and Cromarty   1   0%
Roxburgh             33   1%
Selkirk            15   0%
Shetland            22   1%
Shipping             1   0%
Stirling            42   1%
Sutherland            5   0%
West Lothian   47   1%
Wigtown             5   0%

Arranged in descending order
Fife                1012   32%
Angus           458   15%
Lanark           429   14%
Midlothian            380   12%
Dumfries           108   3%
Clackmannan   98   3%
Ayr                   80   3%
Perth                   76   2%
Caithness           72   2%
Renfrew            61   2%
Aberdeen            56   2%
West Lothian   47   1%
Stirling           42   1%
Roxburgh            33   1%
Dunbarton            32   1%
Kinross             22   1%
Shetland             22   1%
Orkney            17   1%
Banff                   16   1%
East Lothian   15   0%
Selkirk           15   0%
Kirkcudbright   12   0%
Moray           10   0%
Nairn                    7   0%
Bute                    5   0%
Peebles            5   0%
Sutherland            5   0%
Wigtown            5   0%
Inverness            3   0%
Kincardine            1   0%
Ross and Cromarty   1   0%
Shipping            1   0%
Argyll                0   0%
Berwick            0   0%

I also sorted by whether a county was north or south of the Forth and Clyde. This does present the occasional problem; for example Lanarkshire is clearly south of the Forth, but bits of it are north of the Clyde. I assigned Lanarkshire to south of the Forth and Clyde, and Stirlingshire and Argyll to north of Forth and Clyde.

The result shows that 62% of the Adamsons in the index to the 1891 census were north of the Forth and Clyde, and only 38% were south of the Forth and Clyde.

Therefore the information given for the surname Adamson on the available page of the book is significantly incorrect in every respect.

The available page says that the incidence of Beattie is 13 per, 10,000, and that the name is found 'mostly in Dumfries-shire'. The 1891 census records 5006 Beatties, of whom 667 were in Dumfries-shire. (Including spelling variants, there were 5710 B(e)at(t)ie/ys in Scotland of whom 676 were in Dumfries-shire).

So the incidence of the surname Beattie without variants was just over 12 per 10,000, which is reasonably close to the 13 per 10,000 in the book. However only 13% were in Dumfries-shire; in other words, nearly 7 out of 8 Beatties did not live in Dumfries-shire in 1891.

Therefore the information about the distribution of the surname Beattie on the available page of the book is wholly incorrect.

Now, it is perfectly possible that the information about all the rest of the 100 names in the book is correct in every detail. But I doubt it. It may also be that there is more useful information later in the book. But if you can see that there are such glaring errors on just this one page, can you trust anything in the rest of the book?

I wouldn't buy this book to light the fire with.

If you want to know the distribution of surnames in Scotland, there are lots of more reliable sources than this. Try http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/ - though this uses modern post codes rather than historical counties. And treat all such information with caution. Remember my tale of the English family who moved to Middlesbrough!

Or you can do your own research using the indexes to census, births, marriages and deaths on Scotland's People, as I did.

[Liviani]

In my opinion the book is as described and illustrated by the two example pages.

Though the title does not reveal much the pages show it is a list of the most common surnames in Scotland during the relevant period.

It also gives a brief view of where the surnames may be found and the proportion per 10,000.
Whilst it may not be what you were looking for it could be useful to other researchers trying to find the area their ancestor may have come from.

Cheers
Guy

True, but those were just my thoughts on the book.

I'll give another example of inaccuracy in this book. I look at the first name listed, Adam. This name features heavily in my own family tree.

It states; 'Dispersed over a large part of Scotland, but rare in the north'

Now, looking at the 1891 census, there were 3859 families in Scotland with the surname Adam. The name is most concentrated in the following areas; Lanarkshire at 23% frequency, Renfrewshire at 18%, Angus at 15% and Aberdeenshire at 15%. It's most certainly not 'rare in the north' as this book claims. Depends what he means by 'north' of course (far North?), but there is no explanation nor detail describing it. I would certainly call Aberdeenshire 'north Scotland' and Angus is often referred to as 'north'.

Now let's look at the name Armstrong. Historically most of us will know this name mostly originates in the Border regions, Dumfriesshire etc and over the border into the northern counties of England. The book claims the following; 'Scottish border counties, especially Dumfries-shire'. Let's look again at 1891 distribution, 40% of Armstrongs were in Lanarkshire and 25% were in Dumfries-shire. So again, wrong information. I do feel the author has looked at some names and just taken their early origins as current fact.

I also find the information lacking for example take the surname Arthur, it states;
'South of the Forth and Clyde, especially in Ayrshire'. South of the Forth and Clyde could mean anything, parts of Glasgow? or Newcastleton near the English border?
There are other names that just simply say 'scattered'. This is not useful nor helpful. It may be that the name is scattered but it gives no numbers nor locations where the name is most common. It strikes me as rather lazy.

So I do not recommend this book at all.

Also, many thanks for your thorough research Forfarian.

Jill