Griffith Jones

[Gadget]

Richard -

have you read George Borrow's , Wild Wales?  It has some rather vivid descriptions of the Wrexham area, Cefn, etc. on his way to Llangollen. Worth reading to get a feel for the rapid industrialisation and how the ordinary folk lived in those days ~

http://georgeborrow.org/literature/wildWales.html


Gadget

[Gadget]

Re Borrow's book~

I've just found the quote I was looking for from an old website of mine (via Wayback Machine)

George Borrow describes the Cefn Bychan/Cefn Mawr area of Ruabon parish in the account of his travels in Wales (Wild Wales, 1862)

I debouched upon the Llangollen road near to the tramway leading to the collieries. Two enormous sheets of flame shot up high into the air from ovens, illuminating the spectral chimneys as high as steeples, also smoky buildings, and grimy figures moving about. There was a clanging of engines, a noise of shovels and a falling of coals truly horrible … Advancing along the tramway I obtained a nearer view of the hellish buildings, the chimneys and the demonic figures. It was just such a scene as one of those described by Ellis Wynn in his Vision of Hell. (Fontana edition, 1982, page 317)

[wilcoxon]

I`m totally confused now. You said .

This might help:
Think I might have found Griffith's parents in 1851

HO107/2502/248/36

Pont Faden, Gwersyllt, Hope
William Jones, 61, Smith, b. Hope
Hannah, 46, b. Hope
John, s, lbourer, b. Hope
Harriet, d, 18
Sarah, d, 16
Isabella, d, 13
William, s, 11
Robert, s 7
Hannah, d, 5
Jane, Grandd, 3, b. Wrexham

All children apart from John, b. Gresford. Not sure if the 1841 for Gresford is available.

Probably married in the Hope area - will check.

Gadget

[wilcoxon]

It`s possible Griffith worked for Eddleston and Price.

Not sure about that, Wilcoxon, as he was in Cefn Mawr in 1851 and Crewe in 1861 

Not sure about the pubs in Cefn - WRJones might know 

 The New Inn, Holly Bush are in Cefn y bedd. Not Cefn , Ruabon.

[Gadget]

I`m totally confused now. You said .

Think I might have found Griffith's parents in 1851

Yes, but Griffith and Eliza had married  in 1850 (Wrexham St Giles) and were living in Cefn mawr in 1851  and then moved to Coppenhall (Crewe) and on to Manchester - see lots of earlier  posts on this thread

Possible family 1851 Census Cefn Mawr, Ruabon, Denbighshire
Griffith Jones born 1829 Hope Flintshire
Eliza Jones born 1825 Ruabon, Denbighshire
William Jones (3 months born) 1851 Ruabon, Denbighshire

Also, I was referring to pubs in Cefn Mawr given he was living there 

[wilcoxon]

 Ah, right, I `m still looking at Griffith, not his son William.

Is there a pub that you think William and Griffiths would've frequented in the area that I might pay a visit to? My girlfriend is from Anglesey so we can call in for a pit stop on the way back home.

[Gadget]

What I'm saying is that Griffith probably left the family home fairly early on.  He and Eliza married in Wrexham in 1850 and Eliza was from Cefn Mawr, where Griffith and she were in 1851 (aged 20-ish) .  Thus he was more likely to use ale houses (if he did frequent them)  in Cefn Mawr than Hope.

I think Richard was really looking for pubs/ale houses in the area that were there in the early 1800s (1830 -1850s).

[wilcoxon]

Ah, right, I `m still looking at Griffith, not his son William.

Is there a pub that you think William and Griffiths would've frequented in the area that I might pay a visit to? My girlfriend is from Anglesey so we can call in for a pit stop on the way back home.

OK, so I have this the wrong way round. Griffith has moved to Cefn Mawr but William is still in Cefn y Bedd where the Holly Bush is located. It`s a short walk from  the area he and Hannah  lived. I suppose Griffith  may have gone there if he lived in the area before he moved.

(I live close to where William was in 1851 and often  go to Trac Mon in Anglesey , the Holly Bush is on route to Mold / Northop where we join the A55)

[Gadget]

Moving on to Eliza William's family - from mariage cert, her father was a John Williams, butcher, and she was born Cefn Mawr/Ruabon according  to censuses and baptism (Llangollen Wesleyan Chapel, from Blackwell data). Mother was Sarah.

1851
Cefn Mawr, Ruabon
HO107/2503/177/1
John Williams, 60, butcher, b. Llangollen
Sarah, 60, b. -do-
Elizabeth, 20, b. Ruabon*
Harriet, 17, b. -do-
William Roberts, visitor, surgeon, b. Caernarvonshire

*Note that Elizabeth Williams was one of the witnesses at Griffith and Eliza's marriage

It looks as if Sarah died before 1861 as John is with his daughter and son in law in Cefn mawr:

1861
Cefn Mawr, Ruabon
RG09/4282/6/5
John Davies, 47, coal miner, b. Cerigydridion
Mary, wife, 47, b. Llangollen
John, 20, coal miner, b. Ruabon
Ellen, 14, b. Ruabon
Ann, 8, b. -do-
Sarah, 6, b. -do-
John Williams, father in law, widower, 72, butcher, b. Llangollen


At the moment, I can find 3 possible marriages of a John Williams to a Sarah in Llangollen parish 1805-1815 : Sarah Edwards, Sarah Jones and Sarah Parry

Not sure if Methodists frequented hostelries in those days but the Hand Hotel, Llangollen would have been a possible for John 

Gadget