Author Topic: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP  (Read 897 times)

Offline Kiwicol

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Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« on: Saturday 08 July 17 03:30 BST (UK) »
According to a findmypast search George Whitehead married Frances Crisp 9 December 1807
at St Margarets Ipswich.
I am wondering if it is possibe to have some search angel see if there is any identifying information on this entry

Not sure if it is my couple or not, but no other searches have thrown up any likely contenders.
Frances according to 1851 census was from Diss, in Norfolk.
George and France's daughter Eliza Whitehead married in 1844, and a witness was a Charlotte Crish who may have been from Diss, if a single person.

Thanks Colin Whitehead

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Offline Annette7

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 08 July 17 12:26 BST (UK) »
I'm thinking that Frances aged in 1851 census is wrong - bc.1791 would mean she was only 16 when married (yes, possible I know).

Can't seem to find her in 1841 but there is the baptism of a Fanny Crisp 25/4/1781 Diss, dau. of Robert and Elizabeth, some 10 years older.   Charlotte Crisp bp.11/6/1815 Diss, dau. of Richard and Mary.   Thinking that Charlotte Crisp could be Frances' niece I then looked for baptism of Richard.   However, whilst there is a Richard Crisp bp.17/12/1775 Diss his parents are shown as Richard (not Robert) and Elizabeth so perhaps a cousin of Frances rather than brother.

Annette

 
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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Kiwicol

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 July 17 01:04 BST (UK) »
The online death index in 1858 for Frances has her aged 73 so getting closer to the age of Fanny 1781. Hoping against hope informant is a child but not James or Eliza.
She is on the 1841 census at brick lane wrongly indexed as Whiteaker (or some such) with Eliza Whitehead 20 and Henry 20 and Henry 15 but the Henry 20 doesnt exist
James being executor for his father and getting letters of Administration for Frances, I would think would be oldest son
Son George baptised 1820 with birth date of 1810, could well be the George Whitehead also a baker, who married Elizabeth For(e)man in 1832 and died in 1868, Census records have him being born at Diss, (1807-1810) The George Street address on baptism would be where parents were at time of Baptism.
No record of James Whitehead's birth and his age from Census and death records are 1805-1814
Eliza was born and baptised in 1819
Robert 1821
Robert 1823 baptised 2nd January 1837 father was deceased. Not on 1841 Census (that i can find)
Henry born and bapt 1824, witness in 1844 on sister's marriage, (I have not found any other record for him)
So IF the couple married in 1807 and James is first child, there could well be several other children who survived or didn't up until Eliza in 1819

Colin

Offline Annette7

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 July 17 14:05 BST (UK) »
Have been searching this family and agree (mostly) with your findings to date.   Not sure that James was necessarily the oldest - even though his age fluctuates the most he consistently says he was born in Stepney or Shoreditch whereas George b.1810 knows he was born in Diss which would suggest that he was born there before the family moved to London and that James born then.

Children:

George b.18/4/1810 Diss, bp.11/2/1820 Shoreditch
James - going by 1841 census indicates born 1811-1816 - I feel this is the most accurate even though ages rounded down on this census.   He then seems to get older as he ages: bc.1810 in 1851, bc.1805 in 1861.
Eliza b.20/3/1819, bp.20/9/1819 Shoreditch
Robert bp.31/8/1821 Shoreditch - presumably died.
Robert b.20/1/1823, bp.2/1/1837 Shoreditch
Henry bp.6/8/1824 Shoreditch

When Eliza married there were 3 Whitehead witnesses - James, Henry and Rachel.

From what I can see James didn't follow the family business and became a Stationer.  He married Rachel Norford 20/9/1834 St. Ann, Limehouse and it would seem that they are the James and Rachel who witnessed Eliza's marriage together with brother Henry.

You are probably right in there may have been other children born between 1807 and 1818 (aside from George and James) but when the parents didn't baptise them at the appropriate time it makes it difficult.  Perhaps other daughters who'd married by 1841?  Who can say.

Annette


   
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Kiwicol

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #4 on: Monday 10 July 17 22:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette
I have only just found George and Frances, what is your interest in this lot?
Yesterday found on FindMyPast a daughter born in Ipswich to George Whitehead and Frances Crisp,  Sophia in 1808, she married in 1844 a John Barber who was considerably older, Not sure if the Sophia that shows with him in 1841 is her, or an earlier wife, she had by 1851 about 3 children one who died in Australia confirming her surname as Whitehead. He only had one child and the mother and child returned to England. Hoping that when the marriage cert arrives it may clarify the situation.
Colin

Offline Kiwicol

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 03:13 BST (UK) »
Sophia Whitehead is the mother of at least 3 Children born to her and John Butler, before the 1844 marriage, the online GRO index search has her surname as Whitehead, so would assume that the earlier children to John Barber and Sophia are also hers.
Coincidentally when Phoebe Barber was born in 1834 her father was a baker at Batemans Row, Shoreditch. George Whitehead (married to Elizabeth Forman) was a baker there in 1833 and 1835

Offline Annette7

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 12:54 BST (UK) »
I have no connection to this family - I should have maybe worded the beginning of my post a little better.   I was only researching on your behalf.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Kiwicol

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 July 17 00:27 BST (UK) »
Cool thanks for that

Offline Kiwicol

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Re: Marriage St Margaret Ipswich WHITEHEAD and CRISP
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 16 July 17 03:19 BST (UK) »
Found the marriage for Henry Whitehead in 1844 at St Mary, Haggerston
Brother James Whitehead a witness, then realized same church and year as Sophia, so scrolled back to October, and Sophia like Henry was a daughter of the late George Whitehead, a baker.
Feel more confident that it is all the same family now.