Author Topic: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.  (Read 3342 times)

Offline Moffitt77

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #63 on: Friday 21 July 17 03:15 BST (UK) »
This is odd:-

'Joyce, on Matilda Hayes to Sydney from Viti Levu, July 1887. I have not recorded the source, but of course it could be a son or brother???? Now I am curious.

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Offline ShaunJ

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Offline Moffitt77

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #65 on: Friday 21 July 17 13:25 BST (UK) »
I have spent the day 'IN' Jersey. It is perhaps a foolish thing to do, but I have clustered the Joyce names and created a feasible tree. The first James Joyce is, I feel, a member of the Beckington group, if perhaps a generation before John Joyce b1778, although two sons in a family could be that far apart in age. He appears to have been born about 1760, having died in 1839, aged 79. It is the seafaring nature of the family which encourages me, plus the DNA links which we are checking.

James Joyce is recorded as from Newcastle on Tyne in one marriage record, but that is not proven by one mention alone.

James could possibly have been married 3 times:-

Marriage 1

Wife - Isabella Watson, buried 19 Sept 1822, aged 47.

Children
Thomas Thatcher Joyce, buried 23 September 1850, and born c 1795.
                 No family recorded.
William Henry Joyce, married 4 January 1829, Mary Johnson.
                  (William's three children were:-
                 James John, buried 6 Sept 1830,
                 John Edward, buried 7 Mar 1835,
                 William Henry, buried 17 Nov 1836.)

Daniel Joyce, buried 9 Mar 1810,
George Joyce, bp 18 Mar 1812, buried 12 Dec 1820,
Edward Joyce, bp 1814,
Daniel Joyce, by 13 Jan 1816.

Marriage 2

Wife - Nancy Giot, married 8 Jan 1824, but the following children are recorded to Anne La Source. Nancy is a diminutive of Anne, and a search proved that the full version of the surname is Giot Dit La Source. Anne died 16 June 1824.

Children
Mary Ann bp 28 May 1824
James bp 16 June 1827. Mother died the same day.

Marriage 3

Wife - Elizabeth Le Brun, married 9 September 1828.

Children

John George, bp 15 Jun 1831, but buried as George John 26 sept 1832.
Elizabeth Mary, bp 21 Sept 1834,
Elise buried 7 June 1836,
Isabelle Emily, bp 28 Feb 1836 (Edited - Isabelle is the daughter of William and Mary above. Sorry)

These are all of the Joyce names that I can find in Jersey. It seems logical that they are one family.

Hypothesis

We know that Daniel Joyce came to New Zealand from Jersey. He had a family here and appears to have left the country in a hurry on his ship, Matilda Haynes. He is said to have died in Fiji in 1884, but records show a Daniel Joyce as Captain of the ship, Matilda Haynes again, on a voyage to Sydney in July 1887

Daniel's voyages could be the reason why we can not be certain of any ship being the one that brought JPJ to New Zealand.

William Henry Joyce could be the William Henry Joyce who was agent for Daniel's shipping business in New Zealand

James Joyce, born 16 jun 1827, son of James b 1760, and shown as 14 in 1841, appears very likely to be our JPJ. His French stepmother, Elizabeth Le Brun would explain why he was fluent in French, and JPJ was described as having spent much of his youth in the Channel Islands.

When James senior died, his widow, Elizabeth would have still been young. Her parents Jacques Le Brun and Sara Le Breton, married in 2 November 1805, so she probably married again, being only about thirty when James died. Could a man called Parker have become JPJ's stepfather?

I am now looking for a second marriage for Elizabeth Le Brun Joyce. Maybe it was to a Parker - my usual question.

There were a number of Parker families. The will of one James Parker interests me, even if it is a bit early at 1709. It may, however, have been written long before death, or it could indicate other members of the next generations. It is interesting, because he is described as 'late of Southhampton'. Amongst the rest of the wills listed, is one for a Benjamin Parkes (often a bad spelling for Parker) of 16 Granville Street, who died 26 September 1868.

All speculation, but James Joyce's daughter Mary Ann Joyce could be the person recorded as Mary Ann Parker. Eliza Ann Parker could be James Joyce's daughter Elizabeth, and William Alexander Parker could belong to the new marriage. These were the only Parker names I could find. Just guessing really.

I seem to be becoming obsessed with the Parker name, but I AM aware that it could be an invention by JPJ

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #66 on: Friday 21 July 17 13:44 BST (UK) »
Quote
James Joyce, born 16 jun 1827

Remember that is a baptism date. He was born June 3rd 1827.

However there is a merchant navy record of his death at sea aboard the Ulysses in 1845 https://goo.gl/eiUjnh So not that James Joyce.
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Offline ShaunJ

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #67 on: Friday 21 July 17 13:56 BST (UK) »
Did you notice in Jersey a James Oliver Parker baptised 19 April 1829? Son of James and Susan

EDIT scrap that idea too - he died in December 1829.
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Offline Moffitt77

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #68 on: Saturday 22 July 17 00:37 BST (UK) »
Oooooooooooooooh! And again!

My husband says that I am like a big deflated balloon.

Thank you for these details before I launch into a deeper search. I was beginning to wonder if there could be a connection between the names LeBrun and Brunton. So much else fitted.

There were also positive glimmers when the French names were fed into the DNA matches. Better leave that in the meantime, till we delve deeper and avoid false matches.

I don't suppose that there was yet another child, James, born to Elizabeth Le Brun?

I thought that I had seen all of the Joyce and Parker names on Jersey, but obviously not. I will nit be able to resist having a further look at Jersey.

I still have not found my first recorded reference to Joyce on the Martha Haynes in 1887. It was probably a brother or a mistake in the date. Sorry if it looked as if I did not believe you. Another mistake I made earlier was in confusing the Isle of Man with the Isle of Wight. I do know the difference.

Right, back to Portsea.

Offline Moffitt77

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Re: John Joyce of Beckington, 21 Bath Road, Beckington, Somerset.
« Reply #69 on: Saturday 22 July 17 02:01 BST (UK) »
Back to the drawing board.

I think that I mentioned looking for a young James Joyce who was born on the same day as JPJ in Portsea, to James Joyce, Limerick, and Agnes Pearce, Portsea, but was never found near his parents again, well, by me anyway. I traced the movements of both his mother and father, through census and Royal Navy papers. That was interesting. James Joyce Senior was on a different ship about every eighteen months or two years. I thought that he may have died when HMS Challenger was wrecked in 1835, but although he had been on this ship at the time of marriage in 1833, he was not present then, and he died in 1851.

I had found a second James Joyce interwoven with this one (wife Jane, son George) and presume he was the one who was severely wounded on board HMS SANSPAREIL in October 1854. I had thought this to be the Portsea James and was excited to find that he had also been aboard HMS Britannia in 1851, because another grandfather of mine was also on that ship in Crimea. A genealogist's dream seemed to be coming true when I found that Commander C G Grylls of HMS SANSPAREIL had kept a journal for September-October 1854 (JOD/96) and an address for a Royal Museums, Greenwich, library site of archivesandlibrary.rmg.co.uk or collections.rmg.co.uk

Then I discovered that the one I was seeking had died in 1851. I suppose I should follow up on this second James Joyce one day, but another search also grew out of this one.

When I was looking for the missing son of James and Agnes above, I looked for young men away from home. One was James Joyce, born/bp 1834 Chatton, Northumberland. This looks interesting because James Joyce of Jersey gave Newcastle as an homebase during one wedding.

James Joyce, boarder, Eng/Wales Census 1851, age 17, single. Residence West gate, Northumberland, Sunderland Street, Occupation Joiner, Others Margaret Smith, William Smith, Joseph Moffoot,  Reg District Newcastle on Tyne, p33, reg no HO107, peice/folio 2404/308/

You can see why it also interested me - yet another way of spelling Moffitt.

Another entry for this James Joyce states chr 11 August 1833, born Chatton, Northumberland. Father James Joyce. Mother Eleanor.