Author Topic: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog  (Read 1204 times)

Offline Gordon Hughes

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Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« on: Sunday 09 July 17 18:01 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I'm trying to trace the ancestors of Evan Hughes, born in 1846. He shows up in the 1851 census as living in Glyn Ceiriog with his grandfather David Hughes, born in 1798, at 'By Mill, North of Laver Brook'. I have his birth certificate which shows his mother is Agnes Hughes, but no indication of his father. I can find no census records for either Agnes Hughes, or Evan Hughes until after his marriage to Elizabeth Rees in 1870. Does anyone have any suggestions ?
Many thanks, Gordon

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 July 17 23:03 BST (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

He was clearly the illegitimate son of Agnes.  Parts of the 1861 for Denbighshire are missing which may be why you can't find him in 1861

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces

The 1841 has a 20yr old Agnes Hughes working as a servant in Llangollen
HO107 Piece 1400/12 Folio 6 Page 5

Marriages March qtr 1851 
Agnes Hughes  Corwen    27   199     - possible spouses on same page Edward Jones/John Rogers/Price Phillips
 
 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 July 17 23:18 BST (UK) »
The 1851 has a Price and Agnes Phillips living in Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog but it is shown as Merionethshire - both b Denbighshire

HO107 Piece 2509 Folio 611 Page 14
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 July 17 23:25 BST (UK) »
By 1871 Price is a widower with a 13yr old son Roderick

Deaths December qtr 1867 
Agnes Augustus Phillips 49    Corwen    11b   284

Births March qtr 1858   
Roderick Phillips     Corwen    11b   382

GRO online shows mothers maiden name Hughes

From Family Search
 
Name    Agnes Hughes
Event Type    Baptism
Event Date    08 May 1818
Event Place    Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog, Denbighshire, Wales

The image is viewable on FindMyPast but you have to pay  - if fathers name is David then you have the right Agnes
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gordon Hughes

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #4 on: Monday 10 July 17 09:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Carole,
Wow ! Many thanks for the quick response and the information, and the welcome to Rootschat. I had guessed that Evan was an illegitimate child, but it's useful to have someone else confirm my suspicions. I hadn't made the link of Agnes Hughes to Price Philips - it looks as if she got married after having Evan. This all fits. Evan had a son Roderick, who was my grandfather, and also had a son Price, so it's now fairly obvious where those names came from.

Navigating the censuses for that area is a nightmare. Properties that were north of Laver Brook (and I  assume Laver is an anglicisation of Llafar) in the 1851 have moved to south of Laver Brook in the 1861 census. Also, the names of properties seem to change. I see references to "By Mill', "Dryll', "Garth" which seem to come and go. I have the census CDs for Merioneth and Denbigh for 1841 - 1871 which have helped a little.

Evan Hughes married Elizabeth Rees in 1870. Her father was William Rees (deceased) a joiner. At the time she was living at Pantyfynnon in Llantisilio, but again, I can find no trace of her or her father in the censuses for 1851 or 1861.

Again, many thanks for your help, Gordon. 

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #5 on: Monday 10 July 17 12:40 BST (UK) »
Hi

If you are unable to view the baptismal entry for Agnes, a copy of the marriage cert to Price Phillips would confirm her fathers name.

However - from what you have said about the naming of Evan's children I would say she is the right Agnes

I can't find them on the 1861 but in view of the missing census pieces I'm not surprised. 
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline keyboard86

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 July 17 14:32 BST (UK) »
By 1871 Price is a widower with a 13yr old son Roderick

Deaths December qtr 1867 
Agnes Augustus Phillips 49    Corwen    11b   284

Births March qtr 1858   
Roderick Phillips     Corwen    11b   382

GRO online shows mothers maiden name Hughes

From Family Search
 
Name    Agnes Hughes
Event Type    Baptism
Event Date    08 May 1818
Event Place    Llansanffraid Glyn Ceiriog, Denbighshire, Wales

The image is viewable on FindMyPast but you have to pay  - if fathers name is David then you have the right Agnes

This baptism has father William occ Sailor Mother Elizabeth .
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gordon Hughes

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #7 on: Monday 10 July 17 14:46 BST (UK) »
Just downloaded the image. Yes, occupation was apparently a sailor - rather strange considering the location !

Offline Gordon Hughes

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Re: Hughes in Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog
« Reply #8 on: Monday 10 July 17 19:51 BST (UK) »
So I've found the line of descent from Agnes Phillips/Hughes and everything fits. The only anomaly is that the baptism record for Agnes indicates that her parents were William and Elizabeth Hughes, whilst the 1851 census for Evan appears to indicate that his grandfather was David Hughes. However, the census record also says that David was unmarried. I'm inclined to believe the baptism record (how many Agnes Hughes' could there be in Lllansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog ?!! ) and I'll now try to figure out exactly who David was.