KEIR/BRAND/FERGUSON of Perth, HELP!

[EBrand]

Ahhh....looks like you have all of this already  www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772727.0

Monica

Yeah, I posted that a while back, but didn't get too far in it. I think I need to invest in the marriage certificate. As I am attempting to follow a new lead now I decided to make another post concerning the families of Keir and Ferguson.

EB

[majm]

The name "Irene" means peace and perhaps that's a pointer to her stillbirth, and the choice of her name. 

JM

[EBrand]

Hi,

Err ... 1852 ...  no, he was not transported in 1852.     You mention you have birth certificates for two possible George BRAND babies.    I would expect these certificates to include at least the name of one parent, and the place of birth, date of birth etc.   When George married he would have given information to the clergy ... including his Dad's name and occupation, and possibly his own age and occupation.   That should help you determine if your George is the son of David or of John or of someone else. 

Anyways, following up on a convict transported to the colony of Western Australia ...

There’s a George BRAND, aged 35, arriving on the Stag in May 1855, (so born c 1820) under a sentence of 14 years for Theft.  Trial place was Edinburgh in 1852.    See for summaries, likely based on AJCP microfilm.   
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/con-wa15.html  and 
https://convictrecords.com.au/ships/stag/1855
https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/australian-joint-copying-project


Extracted from some newspapers:

Glasgow Herald 7 November 1851
Extensive Railway Thefts ….
Although every enquiry was made, no trace ….. until Sunday last when three large bales …. Found concealed in the vicinity of Bonnybridge….  A watch was set ….. resulted in the apprehension of an old offender named George Brand, who was at one time a porter in the service of the Scottish Central Railway Company…


Glasgow Herald 23 Feb 1852
The Railway Thefts .
The following parties have been indicted to stand their trial in the High Court of Justiciary, at Edinburgh on Monday the 1st March, in connection with the late extensive thefts on the Scottish Central and Edinburgh and Glasgow Railways in the neighbourhood of Falkirk, viz:- George Brand, William Murphy, Alexander Burt, George Donnelly, Samuel Rea, and Joseph Donnelly.

Caledonian Mercury  4 March 1852
High Court of Justiciary
Extensive Robberies at Greenhill Junction…
The High Court sat on Monday …
George Brand …. Placed at the bar, charged with the theft and reset of several parcels of valuable goods from the trucks of goods trains … on various occasions …from September 1850 to October 1851.   … and no fewer than 183 witnesses were summoned…. Brand pleaded guilty …. After some consultation, the several pleas tendered by the prisoners were accepted … jury was dismissed…

Certificates of character were then read by the counsel for the prisoners, in mitigation of sentence …. 

Brand to fourteen years transportation,  Murphy to ten years,  Burt to seven years, G Donnelly to seven years,  Rea to seven years and J Donnelly to twelve months imprisonment. 


I wonder about those ‘Certificates of Character’ … would there be mention of George’s origins, his parents, siblings,  his childhood …    I am in NSW Australia and I have no knowledge of researching Scottish court records from the 1850s.

JM

Yes sorry JM, that was my mistake. His indictment (the document I have) was dated 1852 but he arrived in Australia in 1855. He had been convicted before for theft (I believe) 15 months earlier and had been imprisoned for four months. I'm a bit stuck on how to get the court records too, I wonder whether the certificates of character would even be available? The document I have is titled 'Extract of entries in an OLD PAROCHIAL REGISTER' and was in the Parish of Denny, County of Stirling. The entry I have, there are three on the page, says;

'1840
January 4th,
George Brand carter Bonnyfield and Isabella Duncan resident there gave in their names for proclamation in order to marriage and were thrice proclaimed on the following Sabbath and married on the tenth instant,'

That is all the info for this couple given. Is this the actual marriage certificate or would there be more somewhere else?

EB

[EBrand]

The name "Irene" means peace and perhaps that's a pointer to her stillbirth, and the choice of her name. 

JM

Oh wow, perhaps you're right. That's really interesting.

EB

[majm]

.....The document I have is titled 'Extract of entries in an OLD PAROCHIAL REGISTER' and was in the Parish of Denny, County of Stirling. The entry I have, there are three on the page, says;

'1840
January 4th,
George Brand carter Bonnyfield and Isabella Duncan resident there gave in their names for proclamation in order to marriage and were thrice proclaimed on the following Sabbath and married on the tenth instant,'

That is all the info for this couple given. Is this the actual marriage certificate or would there be more somewhere else?

To me, an actual marriage certificate is a document certified by a statutory body authorised by  government legislation - ie a civil registration process.    Scotland's civil registration commenced in 1855. 
http://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Civil-Registration,-Scotland.aspx

JM   

[EBrand]

To me, an actual marriage certificate is a document certified by a statutory body authorised by  government legislation - ie a civil registration process.    Scotland's civil registration commenced in 1855. 
http://www.glasgowfamilyhistory.org.uk/ExploreRecords/Pages/Civil-Registration,-Scotland.aspx

JM

Right, so they probably didn't have one as it was in 1840, that's unfortunate.
I'll check with my uncle to see whether or not he can find anything more for the couple.

EB