Margaret Thompson, wife of James Gordon Mitchell Black

[Forfarian]

Margaret Thomson was the daughter of Mark Thompson and Christiana Elizabeth Morrison, and her birth was registered in the March quarter of 1843 in Newcastle.

She married James Gordon Mitchell Black on 24 April 1867 in John Knox Church, Newcastle. He was the son of James Black and Jane Landells, and he was born in South Shields on 22 March 1838.

They had five of a family: Christiana, born 1870; Margaret, b 1873; Jane, b 1875; James Gavin, b1882; and Marion Gordon, b 1884.

I have all the relevant GRO birth and marriage references, and death references for James Sr, daughters Christiana (who married Archibald Petrie Macfarlane and had three daughters) and Marion Gordon (who did not marry) and son James Gavin Black.

I also have all the relevant census records for the family except Margaret jr in 1911, and I know quite a lot about the life and career of James Gavin Black.

Is Margaret Thompson or Black the Margaret Black who died in South Shields in the December quarter of 1926, aged 82?

And what became of her daughters Margaret Black, born 1873 and last sighted in the 1901 census with her mother, sister Christiana Macfarlane and family in Stokesley, Yorkshire, and Jane, born 1875 and last sighted with her mother and her sister Marion in lodgings in Bath.   

[Tickettyboo]

Is Margaret Thompson or Black the Margaret Black who died in South Shields in the December quarter of 1926, aged 82?


I don't know, but the online Registrars index gives a local (different from the GRO combined index ref) of
District: South Shields (2nd)
Register : 11
Entry : 314

The death cert may well say 'wife of' or 'widow of' [her husband's name], but £9.25 is a lot to pay to get the cert for a totally unrelated person.

You could try an email to registrars@southtyneside.gov.uk, giving them the local reference and asking if its possible to check the register to see if the entry can confirm she was the wife/widow of James Gordon Mitchell Black. Pot luck as to whether they have the time/ inclination to look and reply but worth a try?

Or maybe not worth bothering them :-)

Added

Probate Calendar entry 1925
BLACK  Margaret of 16 Tynedale Terrace Hexham Northumberland widow, died 5 March 1925 Probate London 1 July to James Gavin Black schoolmaster Effects £486 3s 8d

Free BMD Death Registration Q1 1925, Hexham, age 82 - consistent with being born in 1843

Boo

[CaroleW]

They had five of a family: Christiana, born 1870; Margaret, b 1873; Jane, b 1875; James Gavin, b1882; and Marion Gordon, b 1884.

No birthplaces shown

Christiana - b Westoe Durham and Margaret & Jane both b Sunderland

Family were in Durham in 1881

There were at least 2 other Margaret Blacks b 1843/44 living in Northumberland in 1911 but none living in Durham so difficult to say whether the 1926 death is the one you are looking for

and Jane, born 1875 and last sighted with her mother and her sister Marion in lodgings in Bath. 

Was this in 1911?

[Tickettyboo]

And what became of her daughters Margaret Black, born 1873 and last sighted in the 1901 census with her mother, sister Christiana Macfarlane and family in Stokesley, Yorkshire

Long shot, but matches with her father's name, she was the second daughter,married in Yorkshire which is where you said she was in 1901, but you didn't give detail of where her father had been based so I don't know if that's a match - especially as Sunderland was Durham, not Northumberland :-)

See what you think anyway. If its a possible, check out the 1911 census for her birth place and 1939 register if you have access for her d.o.b.

Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette 20 January 1903

Marriages

WILLCOX-BLACK
At Aysgarth Parish Church on 17th inst., by the Rev J Peacock, assisted by the Rev. Mr Remmington of Aysgarth, Percy Francis Cameron Willcox, eldest son of the late F.W. Willcox,  C.E., M.I.M.E., to Margaret (Madge) Black, second daughter of the late James Black, of Sunderland. At home, 9 Cedars Park, March 4th, 5th and 6th, 1903

Added

Aysgarth a bit out of my usual research area so I firkled around to see if anywhere had transcriptions/images of marriages. If you have access to FindMyPast then the marriage record image is on there and it would seem my long shot wasn't as long as I thought :-) If you don't have access and can get to an LDS Family History Centre, according to their catalogue they have digital images of Aysgarth Parish Registers but they can only be viewed at a Family History Centre.
NB  Family search do have a transcription in their database and it does say her Dad is James Black, but it would seem whoever transcribed it didn't transcribe his complete name.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

and Jane, born 1875 and last sighted with her mother and her sister Marion in lodgings in Bath.   


You said Marion Gordon Black was born in 1884

A free search of the 1939 register for Marion G Black, born 1884 brings up a result in Hexham, the other person in the household is a Jane Black.
Unfortunately a  free search for Jane Black, in Hexham brings up a person born in 1924 in the same house as Marion G Black .

We aren't allowed to do look ups on the 1939 register but if you have access I'd recommend you look at the image to check the transcription of Jane's birth year.
Bearing in mind a 7 is often mistaken for a 2 and the year was recorded as two digits only, so if it had been read as 2 then it would make sense for it to be typed as 1924.

Even with the apparent discrepancy of the birth year for Jane, I'd put this record in the 'possible' category, certainly worth looking at further anyway.

Especially as the probate calendar for 1955  has an entry for
BLACK   Marion Gordon of Dale House, Farnley, Corbridge, Northumberland, spinster died 18 August 1855 Probate* Newcastle upon Tyne 6 December to Ian Desmond Landells Black commercial traveller and Gavin Black marine surveyor  Effects £5211 2s 8d
(* Probate indicates she left a will)

and the probate calendar for 1948 has an entry for
BLACK  Jane of Craigie Allendale Road Hexham Northumberland, spinster died 21 June 1948 Administration Newcastle upon Tyne 10 September to Marion Gordon Black spinster  Effects £4033 6s
(*Administration indicates she did not leave a will)

Probate calendar entries are viewable for free here https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills he he always best to see for yourself as I can produce typos as well as anyone else!

Free BMD has a death Reg for a Jane Black Q2 1948, Northumberland W, age 73 which is consistent with your Jane's birth year and makes the 1939 register entry a lot more likely.

Added

and that 1939 entry is even more likely now. After I found their Mam's probate and it said she'd lived at Tynedale Terrace, Hexham I did a free advanced search on the 1939 register for Tynedale Terrace in Hexham. Two of the people recorded as living there were Marion G Black and Jane Black.

I do like it when things work out neatly :-), though please check it all out carefully, its still just my opinion and you need to check and decide for yourself.

Boo

[Forfarian]

Added
Probate Calendar entry 1925
BLACK  Margaret of 16 Tynedale Terrace Hexham Northumberland widow, died 5 March 1925 Probate London 1 July to James Gavin Black schoolmaster Effects £486 3s 8d
Free BMD Death Registration Q1 1925, Hexham, age 82 - consistent with being born in 1843

That's got to be her - her son James Gavin Black was a schoolmaster in Corbridge.  Thank you! (How did I manage not to notice that one?)

And the ones for Margaret and Jane look spot on as well. I'm a bit pressed for time today but will follow up when I have time.

Many thanks for all that. Much appreciated

[Forfarian]

Just to say thank you again. It all checks out neatly.

And of course raises new questions.

Ian Desmond Landells Black was a son of Charles Lilburn Black (1898-1963), who was the great-nephew of James Gordon Mitchell Black, and Christina M Macfarlane, whom he (Charles) married in Gateshead in 1920.

A Christiana Margaret Black, born 26 February 1898, died in Keighley on 19 August 1969. I have her probate listing but it does not say to whom probate was granted.

I am tempted to think that she was James Gordon Mitchell Black's granddaughter Christiana Margaret Macfarlane, whose birth was registered in Stokesley, Yorkshire, in the June quarter of 1898.

I have tried various sites including FindMyPast and the BNA looking for a marriage notice or other information that might name her father, but so far without success.

Ideas, anyone?

[Tickettyboo]

A Christiana Margaret Black, born 26 February 1898, died in Keighley on 19 August 1969. I have her probate listing but it does not say to whom probate was granted.

Sadly the later probate calendars don't have that sort of detail :-(
Other than forking out £10 to get a copy will/grant of admin I can't think of another way to find out who was granted probate - and it 'could' have been a solicitor which would not really get you any further forward -though the copy will may shed some light on her family.

1969 is a bit recent for things like online newspapers etc. Not sure about local newspapers in Yorkshire but a lookup request on the Yorkshire boards may result in someone looking, perhaps at a library, at old newspapers to see if there was a death announcement that mentions family?

Boo

[Forfarian]

Indeed. It's a great pity that the calendar of probate becomes less and less informative over time.

I was thinking more of a marriage notice in one of the local papers that might name her father, but I haven't found such a notice.