Butfoy and Boutefoy descendants

[Churchie]

Hi Everyone.
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who is descended from the large Butfoy family of London.
My GGG Grandmother was Eliza Butfoy b1821.
She married Hugh Thomas Mann, and her father was named on the marriage record as William Butfoy.
William was married to Charlotte Everett, but not till many years after Eliza would have been born.
The brick wall we have, is that there is no birth records for this Eliza Butfoy.
After years of digging, we believe she was born to Charlotte Everett (no father named) along with her sister Harriet and a brother, William, and that William Butfoy may or may not be her biological father. These children were born in the Bethnal Green workhouse.
William Butfoy may have adopted her, or simply may have not quite got around to marrying Charlotte till 1836.

So, my question is: has any definite descendant of the Butfoy/Boutefoy family done a DNA test?
It may help confirm a relationship so we can finally make some progress.
I'm happy if you would prefer to PM me to give test details.

Many thanks,
Caroline.

[Boutefoy]

To my knowledge, no DNA test has ever been done on one of the Boutefoy descendants alive currently in France (only about ten). Here, I do not think the legislation allows it easily. Being one of the last to bear that name, I am willing, to get you some samples of my hair, traces of my blood and salivary specimens. If you wish, send me your mailing address on my mail: ^(*) and I will send them to you. You may be able to run a DNA test in your country.

Very sincerely.

Bernard Boutefoy  (See also www.boutefoy.net)

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

[Churchie]

Thanks for the offer Bernard.
If you ever wish to do a DNA test you can do it through ancestry.co.uk or Family Tree DNA by buying a kit online. It doesn't matter what country you live in.

I think I will see if anyone definitely descended from Gabriel Boutefoy b1640 d 1686 London comes forward first, as we have a complete line running through to the William Butfoy who might be Eliza's father.

Best regards,
Caroline.

[Manchester Rambler]

If you ever wish to do a DNA test you can do it through ancestry.co.uk or Family Tree DNA by buying a kit online. It doesn't matter what country you live in.

Ancestry won't send a testing kit to France at present, but Family Tree DNA will.

[Churchie]

[/quote]

Ancestry won't send a testing kit to France at present, but Family Tree DNA will.
[/quote]

Handy to know if you think you would like to take a test Bernard.

[BeckyNZ]

Hi There,

I am a descendant of the Bouttefoy, Butfoy family, my Great, Great, Great Grandmother was Rebecca Butfoy and I can trace my 9th Great Grandfather back to Charles Bouttefoy in the 1600's.

I have taken an ancestry DNA test, which is linked to my ancestry  family tree, through this I have discovered several 3rd cousins.

My DNA test shows;

85% England, Wales and North Western Europe. (Particularly Southern England)
8% Scandinavian
5% Germanic Europe
2% European Jewish

Becky

[Churchie]

Hi Becky, I'd be interested to see if I have a DNA match with you, or if any of my family members do. It will help to eliminate/prove the common ancestor we are uncertain about. Can you tell me your Ancestry username?

Caroline (also in NZ)

[sugarfizzle]

Caroline, You have obviously researched this family and come to your own conclusions, but in most cases that I have found, there is rarely such a large gap between birth of first child and marriage, though it is often the exception that proves the rule.

If Eliza was born in 1821and her assumed parents don't marry until 15 years later, then I would think it highly unlikely that William Butfoy was her father, unless he was already married or something similar. Much more likely to be born to father Unknown, brought up in Butfoy household, so used that name at marriage.

If this is the case, it will be very difficult to prove/disprove using DNA, though it might be possible.

You might match with any descendants of Charlotte, who might also have the name of Butfoy in their tree. This in itself will not be enough as the name would be incorrect if Unknown was the father.
You might be able to find shared names between these matches and other matches who haven't got Butfoy in their tree, if you see what I mean.

You might match with descendants of William Butfoys's siblings and ancestors, which might give a better idea, but there again it won't be proof in itself - Unknown could have been related to William.

But the absence of matches with other Butfoy relatives cannot in itself confirm that he wasn't the father either, plenty of posts here about how the DNA is very much diluted in some cases, even at this level, 4th cousins.

Regards Margaret

[Churchie]

Hi Margaret,
Thanks for your helpful advice.
This is why our research into this question is ongoing (it's been about 15 years now) and we have no proof either way, which is why there has always been a blank for Eliza's father - I always want two pieces of evidence before forming a conclusion. I have a separate tree for these people where I am accumulating every scrap of conflicting data I ever find in order to one day make sense of it all.

The original basis for researching William Butfoy as the father of Eliza Butfoy was her marriage, with him named as her father.
We do know that Charlotte Everett, William's wife, spent a large part of her life in and out of the Bethnal Green workhouse, where she gave birth to 4 children, including a son named William.
Other people have based their trees on the two other daughters being definite children of William Butfoy, though again, they have no proof, having never located births for them.
All of Charlotte's children appear to have started life named Everett, then changed to using Butfoy, and all were born before her marriage. There may have been more (I am yet to find them) though rh negative blood has come down through that branch of our family, possibly causing multiple miscarriages and stillbirths in previous generations.

Charlotte married William Butfoy as a spinster, and he was a bachelor, but I tend to take this information lightly, having at least one bigamist in my tree! We have asked all the usual questions - did he have a wife already, was he unable to marry her for some other reason etc... He also disappeared into thin air after her death.
If I could see poor law examinations for Bethnal Green in this period it could answer our questions about her and her admissions to the workhouse. Apparently some are available at the LMA but only from 1839, and you can only view by visiting, which is a little tricky from New Zealand.

I am not looking to prove anything with DNA, more to see if any fresh DNA tests match other people who believe they are descendants through another of the three sisters, or better still through another line, like BeckyNZ who is a descendant of William Butfoy's brother. I don't expect her to match me, or any of my cousins, but if she does it will be an interesting exercise to see who else she matches in common. I also appreciate the matches will be diluted, as you say, it's a long way back.
Joining to do research does bring fresh eyes to the job though, so hopefully some more potential descendants will come out of the woodwork!

Thanks for your interest,
Caroline.