Author Topic: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour  (Read 7224 times)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 13:35 BST (UK) »
Worth checking as always!

Alexander Knight mentioned was a half brother to Helen then. He married an Agnes Munro Mills in 1911. Both parents look to still be alive (assuming he was aware of their whereabouts...).

Now that we have a middle name for him to work with, his birth is one of the two possible birth entries I mentioned earlier.

Alexander Burne Knight, 1890 in Aberdeen Old Machar - ref 168/2 479.

An Alexander B Knight, aged 82, died in 1972 in Stonehaven. Likely his death reg you would think.

From the marriage:


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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 17:13 BST (UK) »
Maggie Ann Anderson/Knight's death is the one you mentioned you had seen in the index in 1898 in Aberdeen. Her mother Isabella is showing as having a maiden name of Anderson, the same as the father that is recorded, again, a Francis Anderson:

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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 19:14 BST (UK) »
I am going to add these references that I had from yesterday before I loose the tabs on them!

Maggie Ann is likely to also be complicated to trace. I think her mother Isabella likely didn't marry Francis Anderson. On Maggie's DC, mother shows as Anderson too for her maiden name. Need more info really.

In 1891, with the entry I had listed above at Cairnfauld where young Alexander showed with mother Margaret Knight, she showed as born in MacDuff, Banff. I wonder whether this could be her entry here: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5D-NXN

Still don't really have firmer entries for Maggie from 1861-81 therefore hard to know anything about her mother Isabella for now.

Monica



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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 19:40 BST (UK) »
Helen had another half sister, Elizabeth McCon...? Knight, born in Durris in 1888. I think this is her in 1901:

Elizabeth M Knight, Boarder b. Durris. Showing as a boarder at the House of Bethany at St Marchar, Aberdeen.

This is also an orphange. Would fit with what we found also for Alexander Knight.

In 1891 she is with her father boarding:

James Philip 58
Jane Philip 63
James Knight 30 boarder gen lab. b. Fetteresso, Kincardineshire
Elizabeth McC Knight 4 boarder b. Durris

Address: 17 Young St, Aberdeen

Monica
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Offline flst

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Re: Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 19:54 BST (UK) »

The head of this household is a Mary A Knox aged 50 and is a widow. Let me know your thoughts on this one guys if you can? It's a puzzling one.

Kirkhill , Old Deer , Aberdeenshire.
Helen Anderson 9 Niece Female birth year 1882 b. Aberdeenshire[/color]

If you purchase the marriage certificate of Robert Knox & Mary Anderson, (married 1870), then you will find out Maggie Ann's parentage, as Mary must be her sister!
flst

 
TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE, WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER, JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW, IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE, WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.

Offline Liviani

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 22:22 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone. That's me just getting around to all of this now today.

There is certainly much to take in and I really do appreciate all of the help given here. Monica, I cannot thank you enough for looking out these certificates!

Ok, I will begin with the 1891 census where there is a Helen Anderson aged 9 living at Kirkhill, Old Deer. She is down as niece here with the head of the household being a Mary A Knox, Widow. I did as flst suggested and ordered the marriage cert of Robert Knox and Mary Anderson 1870 Parish of Old Deer. Robert Knox' residence is Kirkhill so this matches up with his widow being there in 1891. I will include a snippet of Mary's parent's in this post. As you can see her parent's are named as George Anderson, a Joiner and her mother is an Anne Anderson m.s. Findlay??? ??? ???

This could mean either Margaret Anderson spoke untruths (whether deliberately or not) on her marriage cert and thereafter her parents are also recorded wrongly on her death cert or the 9 year old Helen Anderson in 1891 is a completely different Helen Anderson. Though, I do get the feeling I've barked up the wrong tree with this one. However, this begs the question where in the world is Helen in 1891? Not finding her anywhere. She would've still been a child, and probably not old enough to be in full-time employment in this era. She isn't with her step-father (thankfully) nor is she with her mother.  ??? ???

Interestingly, regarding the newspaper article that features the evil step-dad James Knight ill-treating Helen, it was written in February 1891. This was before the 1891 census being taken on 5th April 1891. So, two months prior to the census this court case was taking place. The family appear split up after this, with Helen nowhere to be found, Margaret with Alexander and James Knight boarding with his daughter Elizabeth. I do have a feeling that the entire family just broke down completely with divorce being out of the question in those days. I am saddened that James wasn't immediately imprisoned for what he did to Helen. Later on in the article it states that neighbours often saw Helen outside in the cold, shivering and crying. It also states that James had accused his wife of being 'a drinker and was often intoxicated' so he took his frustrations out on his step-daughter. The neighbours had reported that they hadn't seen Margaret intoxicated but they had seen James himself very frequently under the influence! All in all he appears to be a completely unpleasant man and I hold him in disdain.

I agree with what was found in the census regarding Helen's half-siblings Elizabeth McC Knight and Alexander Burne Knight. The fact they are both in an orphanage in 1901 is indicative of their circumstances with their mother dying 1898 just 3 years prior. From my understanding, children were often regarded as orphans even if one parent was still alive, particularly if it was the mother that had died. By 1901 Helen was an adult.

I have just done a quick search of the 1901 census and I may have found Helen M M Anderson.

Address; Bank Head, Durris, Kincardineshire
Margaret Anderson (going by Margaret here, which is one of her middle names). Servant, Single, Female, 18, General Serv (domestic). Place of birth; Aberdour, Fife. The 'Fife' has to be an error by someone because we know it's Aberdour, Aberdeenshire that she was born in, I have seen her birth cert to see this.
The head of this household is a George Esson, 48, Farmer.
What is interesting here is that below Helen aka Margaret there is a person named Francis Anderson, Male, aged 18, Ploughman born; Kincardineshire. He can't be Helen/Margaret's twin as their places of birth are very different, though he could be some sort of relation given that the name Francis keeps popping up in Helen's documents?

Monica, I have ordered the birth cert for Margaret Ann Anderson 1859 Banff. I do believe this is her as there aren't really any others that match. I have attached a snippet of this birth cert. Unfortunately, she was illegitimate as a few of you had initially thought. The father's name is blank again, her mother is Isabella Anderson. I wonder if anyone can make out the place of birth? Could it be Gellymill Street, Macduff?

This is all I have for now, again, thank you for all the help everyone, and a special thank you to Monica for the images provided to me.

These Anderson women are tough to crack! Never have I experienced so much frustration with any branch, but I still enjoy it, all part of the fun and games.

Liviani


mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline flst

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 22:46 BST (UK) »
I certainly think you can rule out the 1891 Helen as being your one.
Yes, I think the address is correct. :)
flst
TAYLOR, COBBAN, SCOTT, PATERSON, BARCLAY,  DUNCAN, SKENE, SIM, WOOD, STEPHEN, ROSE,  CUMINE, MORISON, GERRARD, PYPER, ANDERSON,  FARQUHAR, BURNET, THOMSON, DAVIDSON, BIRNIE,  STRACHAN, DEY, GERRIE, ROBERTSON, FINNIE, WYLLIE,STEPHEN,WILLOX,MICHIE,MARR,BRUCE, CLUBB,SLESSOR,CLARK, SIMPSON,HEPBURN,SINCLAIR,BEEDIE,FOWLIE, CLYNE,FINDLATER, JOHNSTON,BROCKIE,PARK, WATT,MACKIE,WALKER,YEATS,THIRD, BURD,EWAN,ARTHUR,AUCKLAND, MURDOCH,LOW, IRVINE,CHALMERS,BOYES, LYON,SMITH,ADIE, WATSON - ALL N.E.SCOTLAND.

Offline Liviani

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 22:49 BST (UK) »
Hi again, decided to check the 1861 census for Anderson's in Macduff given the birth cert of Margaret Ann in 1859.

I have found the following.

There is a 35 year old Isabella Anderson at Gellymill Street in 1861. However, I am a bit disappointed with the way the census has come through. There is no head of the household available to view. She is simply stated as a wife and some children are on there also. Can this be sorted somehow? I'm a bit lost here as I've never seen this happen before with any census index. I have no idea if this is the same Isabella.  :( :(

Image attached so you can see what I mean.



mtDNA subclade K1b2b. Father's Y-DNA I-S25383
GEDmatch kit; CF7867455
Father's kit; RY1336515
Mother's kit; AF2312865


Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie.
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Elder, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott.
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Solved Brick Wall - Helen Margaret McQueen Anderson b.1883 New Aberdour
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 22:56 BST (UK) »
Looks like the page you are viewing is a continuation from the previous page. To view that, you have to use a further 6 units  :-\

From a transcript you have:

Francis Anderson 69 head pauper b. Gamrie
George Anderson 11 son b. Gamrie
Robert Anderson 9 son b. Gamrie
Patrick S Anderson 6 son b. Gamrie
Christian Anderson 1 b. Macduff
Isabella Anderson 35 wife b. Gamrie
Margaret Jameison 18 cousin domestic servant b.Gamrie

Address: Gellymill St, MacDuff

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk