Author Topic: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew  (Read 1105 times)

Offline Peter Evans

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Hi

I am looking at an 1858 marriage certificate, and the Residence at time of marriage appears to be  "Shop
Crown
Llansannan" - The first 2 words could relate to the groom's residence, LLansannan to the bride

The "S" in Shop could be "T"
The "C" in Crown is a different shape to the C in Church, but similar to that in Clerk in other parts of document

"Llansannan" was a best guess, and then I actually found a village of that name, close to Llangerniew, but in a different parish.

Anyone any ideas what Shop Crown means? An image is attached I hope

Thanks
Peter

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Offline Gadget

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 09:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Peter and Welcome to RootsChat  :)

It certainly looks like
Shop
Crown
Llansannan


It could be that the groom lived at the shop and the Bride lived at the Crown (Public House?)  in LLansannan.

Have you looked at any censuses to see if any addresses fit?

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline Gadget

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 09:22 BST (UK) »
 :)

Just found a Crown Inn, High Street, Llansannan on the 1861 - prop a Robert Jones, with daughters Winifred and Mary.

Added - what were the names of the couple.
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 19 July 17 09:39 BST (UK) »
Also, a few pages on, 'Top Shop' - proprietor a Robert Vaughan, butcher and shopkeeper.

Gadget
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Offline Peter Evans

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 July 17 01:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info, makes a lot of sense.

The couple are John Evans (father David) and Mary Jones (father David), John is a labourer. They already had a son, Jonah, baptised in 1857 in Gwytherin. John born in Llangerniew 1833 and Mary born in Gwytherin 1837/1838. In the 1961 census they were living in Llangerniew with 2 sons.

I am not sure this is the correct marriage certificate. They were both full age, Mary would have been just 21 years old if born in 1837. But this is the only record on FreeBMD between 1854 and 1860 for a John Evans and Mary Jones in Denbighshire.

My Welsh ancestors seem to be Evans and Jones with usually common first names and no second names - except for my grandfather who was Robert Owen (youngest son of John and Mary) and fairly easy to search, and a good link across the records.

Thanks
Peter

Offline Jomot

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 20 July 17 02:45 BST (UK) »
Looking at the baptism for Jonah it gives both parents surnames, whereas most others on the page give only the usual single (married) surname.  It also gives separate addresses for John & Mary.

I can't pinpoint Jonah's birth entry on the GRO indexes but the baptism above is Elias s/o Robert Roberts & Ruhannah Hughes, and the GRO index for Llanrwst has this as Elias Hughes with the MMN blank.

This would suggest that John & Mary married after 1857, which potentially adds weight to the 1858 marriage being correct.  Perhaps they had to wait until Mary turned 21?



GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 20 July 17 04:18 BST (UK) »
A Mary Jones was baptised at Gwytherin on 11 Mar 1838:  Mary d/o David & Elizabeth Jones of Tyncha

I haven't checked all of the baptisms, but the ones immediately before Mary were William 1834 & Francis 1835, so this appears to be the family in 1841:

Tyny Fynon, Gwytherin, Denbighshire
Elizabeth Jones 30
William Jones 7 
Francis Jones 5 
Mary Jones 4
David Jones 6 months

Burial: 6 Oct 1840 David Jones of Tyn y Fynon, age 32

Francis appears to be in Llangerniew in 1851 but Elizabeth seems to have remarried as young David is listed as a son to Robert Williams aged 60 and his 40 year old wife Elizabeth - H0107/2508/14/1
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Peter Evans

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 July 17 08:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Jomot

Thanks for the very useful research. I only had the FamilySearch transcript  for Jonah, so the additional info you provided is great - what church was he baptised in, his father was married and buried is the established church?

The remaining info helps to fill in the picture.

The marriage was 30 October 1858, meaning that Mary to be full age had to be born before 30 October 1937. The GRO for Dec Qtr 1837 just squeaks in. The baptism comes some months later. Perhaps Mary's widowed mother did not want to give permission for the wedding, or as I read somewhere, rural Wales was surprisingly tolerant of courting couples producing offspring before the happy day.

There are a number of shotguns and irregular unions in my tree in the 19th century, I suspect I am not alone.

Regards
Peter
Sydney

Offline Jomot

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Re: Unusual address on marriage certificate - marriage in parish church Llangerniew
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 20 July 17 12:59 BST (UK) »
The record set doesn't specify which church or denomination but it appears to be the established church.
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.