Author Topic: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885  (Read 1330 times)

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 22 July 17 10:55 BST (UK) »
Do all latinised records mean that it was a RC church?  I have come across quite a few whilst doing this tree.

'latinised' records are highly likely to be RC ones, though I have no doubt that there are exceptions :-)

If you look at the baptism record on Family Search, it says it was St Joseph's but if you aren't sure which flavour of religion - or the transcription doesn't give a specific church name  the record quotes a film number, that the record was transcribed from. Search the Catalogue on Family Search for the film number and it tells you which church it was and also says it was Catholic.

I have tried to find a death for Mary Ann Green nee Hewitt because then I thought I could rule her in or out as the mother depending on when she died but it is a bit of a needle in a haystack.

There are other possible scenarios, maybe Mary Ann Hewitt was her birth name, she may have been married and widowed previously and then married using just her married name on the register -  or they may have married outside England & Wales (Ireland? Scotland?) don't discount anything until you find something that disproves it.

Would anyone be going to the Durham archives at any time who could look up the 2 full birth entries from 1884 and 1885 for Mary Ann Green or her marriage in 1909?

Baptism records would be available at DRO,  but not civil certificates, they are only available from Registrars/ GRO. 
The baptism entry for 1884 is an RC one and therefore may well not have father's occupation /address as the RC registers were not in the same format as Anglican ones. BUT - there is an outside chance that a later marriage was noted on the baptism record. Its a slim chance but if this Mary Ann later married in a Catholic Church, she would have been asked where she was baptised and the priest would have checked with the parish in which she was baptised.
If you can get to Tyne and Wear Archives I know they have microfilms of St Joseph's registers. If that is not possible, and you have an LDS Family History Centre near you, you can go there and they will let you use their computers to see the digital scans of the register. (they aren't generally available outside of a Family History Centre)


The marriage was registered in Tynemouth District, so not in Durham, but in Northumberland, plus it 'may' have been at a Register Office rather than a place of worship so its possible that the only record for it would be a marriage certificate.

Boo


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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 22 July 17 11:59 BST (UK) »
Hi Boo ... Thanks for the info!  I didn't know that about Familysearch so that is very useful.

I have just come across several trees on Ancestry with Mary Ann Hewitt DOM 1878 Carlisle marrying James Green and none of their children are called Mary Ann.  They are based in Carlisle and the Byker area of Newcastle.  Not that Ancestry trees are always correct, esp thanks to the 'Hints' which can take the unwary down the wrong path, but it does look like this couple may not be the parents of my Mary Ann Green?

Sadly I do not live in the UK which does make it an issue when I would like to go to various archive offices in person.  I always used to do my own digging when I lived in UK - something I really enjoy and miss not being able to do!

Do you think my best option would be to get hold of the 1909 marriage cert for Mary Ann Green and William Gilliead rather than either of the birth certs for her?

Nina




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Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 22 July 17 13:10 BST (UK) »
Sadly I do not live in the UK which does make it an issue when I would like to go to various archive offices in person.  I always used to do my own digging when I lived in UK - something I really enjoy and miss not being able to do!

I have used LDS Family History Centres in Canada, England and now Scotland. I am extremely grateful to the LDS for their generosity in sharing the films/scans of original records with people like me who are not church members. Wherever you are there is a chance that there is a centre local to you, its free of charge and I find the people to be very friendly and helpful when I visit.
https://familysearch.org/locations/ that link will tell if there one you can get to.

and this link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kfi/   shows  their holdings for St Joseph's, RC, Gateshead. Any item with a camera icon means they have digitised the records, 'sometimes' you can see them from any computer and sometimes you get a message saying they are only available to view at a Centre - but that is free. If its a film roll icon, then is possible to order the film in to any centre (though there will be a small charge for that)

I have a fair few records from St Joseph's and just looked at some which are slightly later than the 1884 baptism we are talking about but there are a good few amongst them that have been annotated when the child grew up and married.

Do you think my best option would be to get hold of the 1909 marriage cert for Mary Ann Green and William Gilliead rather than either of the birth certs for her?

Do you know for sure that her Dad was James Green? I try to document the steps backwards, verifying at each stage that I am on the right track, especially for the direct line. If you don't have any evidence of who her father was then a marriage cert,  as it 'may' have been at a Register Office, is probably the only way to find out. From there you can try the marriage records, census returns, etc, to try to find the family and track backwards.


You could try contacting the owner of the tree you looked at to see if they have any clues. Some trees on ancestry are reliable, some aren't. I look at them now and then and my usual rule of thumb is that I look at the number of people in the tree, if it runs into the 1000s then I gently close the page.
If I live a hundred lifetimes, I won't have the time to research that amount of people in any sort of accurate detail. I don't mean to disparage anyone, we each do our own thing, but I really am wary of the validity of very large trees :-)


Boo



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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 22 July 17 13:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Boo ... Thanks, I will check the LDS centre locations!

No, I cannot be sure her father is James.  I have her married to William Gilliead (numerous spellings for that through the records) in the 1911 Census, aged 26 and born in Wrekenton, Durham. I thought Wrekenton was Gateshead so the enumerator clearly made an error there!  They have their first daughter Susannah by this point and were living in Dipton, Durham.

Going back to the 1901 census I found a MAG, aged 16, born Wrekenton, and listed as daughter to head of the house James Green.  Rose is his second wife and not the mother of Mary Ann.  They were living in Felling, Heworth. 

That's when I was looking to find her birth record and came across the 2 most likely in 1884 Gateshead and 1885 Lanchester.

If the MAG in these census returns was the 1885 Lanchester birth with MMN Coyne (Bridget) who married James Green 1884, then there was a second child Thomas born and died 1886 Lanchester.  Bridget also died 1886 Lanchester.  James married Rose Ann Farrell late in 1891 Gateshead.

In the 1891 census I found a MAG, age 6 but born Crook, Durham, in a household in Windy Nook, Heworth, where she is described as daughter to head of house John Green aged 64 who I think would actually be her grandfather.  James is listed in the same house but as single not widowed and his age looks a bit off.  May not be the right household.

The same family in the 1881 census are living in Tow Law, Durham, and in 1871 in Leadgate.

I therefore think the marriage cert would be the best one to get hold of since I cannot be certain re the father or whether the 1884 or 1885 births are the right one ... I get the feeling the father will be a James though which may not help but it would reveal his occupation. 

The James in the above census returns was a coal miner, the James who married Hewitt in Carlisle 1878 and were parents of the MAG born 1884 Gateshead appears to have worked on the railways.

What do you think - does any of the above look likely?  I'm starting to get brain fuzz.

Nina






Offline JenB

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 22 July 17 14:22 BST (UK) »
I have her married to William Gilliead (numerous spellings for that through the records) in the 1911 Census, aged 26 and born in Wrekenton, Durham. I thought Wrekenton was Gateshead so the enumerator clearly made an error there! 

The 'error' wasn't made by the enumerator, but by whoever filled in and signed the form (William Gilliead?) . You are seeing the original householders form in the 1911 census  :)
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Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 22 July 17 14:26 BST (UK) »
If you have different occupations for the two James Greens then the marriage cert is the only document I can think of that may confirm which one was her Dad.

and though Wrekenton was/is part of Gateshead its right at the edge and way back then would have been a day out to the country from people in the town of Gateshead. Both Gateshead and Wrekenton are in County Durham.

Boo

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 22 July 17 14:30 BST (UK) »
I shall go ahead and order the marriage cert!  Thanks Boo for all your help and geography info, and thanks JenB for the census info!  It takes up to 4 weeks to get certs from the GRO when they are posting abroad but I shall get back to you once I have the cert to let you know what it says! Nina

Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 22 July 17 18:41 BST (UK) »
FreeReg has the death of a Mary Ann Green, age 0, Jun qtr 1884, Gateshead.

Durham Records Online free search facility has the burial of a Mary Ann Green, 1884, age 0, daughter of James Green of 17 Old Fold, Gateshead. The paid facility is unlikely to have much more info other than exact date of burial and maybe fathers occupation. But this is likely to be the daughter of James Green and Ann Hewitt.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

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Re: Mary Ann GREEN - Birth either 1884 or 1885
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 22 July 17 18:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks Alan - that's great info!  Nina