Author Topic: WW2 Service Records  (Read 6430 times)

Offline originQuest

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 22 July 17 23:33 BST (UK) »
Continued - these sheets seem to show more detail:

Offline MaxD

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 23 July 17 10:38 BST (UK) »
I think you should be able to take the summary and relate it to chunks of the detail which is adding really only locations in some cases and refining the detail of dates of movement.  You'll note that some of the sheets are clearly copies, contrast the entries in different hands with the entries made by the same hand spanning a couple of years.

Of new interest is the medical assessment in March 1940 of A1 and later admissions to hospital and the number of the ITC that I called “other” initially (41 ITC at Camberley Surrey).  The references to Xiii List and Y List are among the ways of categorising a soldier who was not with his permanent unit for whatever reason – a purely administrative thing.

What we both had read as Le Centre after France is revealed to be No 4 Centre AMPC not leave centre.  This was at Clacton, a training and admin centre for AMPC troops.  The record is remarkably clear including unit stamps so when he moved from AMPC to the Seaforths is clearer.  One has to understand that putting on the uniform of the Seaforths is not the same as joining a Seaforth battalion. He went to 11 ITC at Fort George, was posted to 41 ITC at Camberley and then back to 11 ITC in the period Jan to Aug 42  including a spell in hospital in Glasgow (it looks like).

He was also appointed Acting Unpaid Lance Corporal in Jan 42, reverts to Private in Aug 42, reappointed in Dec 42 and manages to hang on to the stripe until May 43.

In the broadest of outline, your man worked as a labourer very briefly with the RE, then became, with his unit, a Pioneer doing airfield construction in France, evacuated after Dunkirk, transferred to the infantry and spent the bulk of his time, when not on the run, at Fort George as one of the support soldiers at the ITC.  Just before the 7th Battalion went off to war in June 1944 he was court martialled, released and then discharged in May 45.

My suggestion would be to review the sheets against the summary, the 29 Coy summary sent separately and the above and then see if there are specifics you are still not clear on.  I would say though that you’ll note that nowhere is there a column for “reason why”.  You might like to consider getting the war diaries I have cited.  A diary for 10 Group Airfield Construction is cited in the 29 Coy summary.

maxD

I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline originQuest

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 23 July 17 20:02 BST (UK) »
maxD,

Thank you so much for this - it is much appreciated.  Invaulable help from yourself, and helps paints a better picture for me.  It is a lot to digest; yes, I could see that the latter sheets were copies but as they seemed to mention more detail, I thought it worth sharing.

I'll have a good think about this and hopefully be able to process with a little time.

Again, my sincere thanks!

Offline MaxD

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 23 July 17 20:22 BST (UK) »
You are most welcome.  Quick word on 10 Group which I hadn't quite tied down.  The 29 Coy summary cites a war diary which is actually a general report on the work of the Pioneers in France covering up to August 1940.  10 Group was the higher level HQ to which 29 Coy and others belonged.  It has its own war diary covering Feb to Jun 1940 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C163699 but if you were to get the 29 Coy diary, that would be a better move.

maxD

I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia


Offline originQuest

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 23 July 17 20:51 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Max; I'll try both diaries, if I can ... seems as though I might need to make a move to Kew and get looking there.

I've also ordered another relatives war records, so looking forward to receiving them now after seeing what can be gleaned.  I'm also eager to order two others, BUT I don't have their regiment details; merely names and dates of birth, and one is a fairly common name sadly!

Offline Rena

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 23 July 17 21:42 BST (UK) »

Returned to UK 21 June 40 some of the last of the BEF evacuated from France (the main evacuation at Dunkirk finished on 4/5 June).

maxD

I was surprised to see he returned to Britain so late after D Day as I thought the remainder of the armed forces personnel left on the beach had been taken prisoner.

It appears we were still sending ships to France but with a cursory search I didn't discover which ship conveyed the men on 21st June 1940.

I came across a very poignant story of French fishermen ferrying Poles to a couple of British ships that couldn't get into the Saint-Jean-de-Luz harbour due to rough weather on 23rd June, 1940.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/dec/21/polish-fathers-miraculous-wartime-escape

I did find mention of the RE and Highland Regiment on the summary of the BEF on this webpage.  It describes a few of the bombardments that our troops suffered.   Halfway down this webpage it describes "After Dunkirk" - which also outlines the squabbles betwen COs!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Expeditionary_Force_(World_War_II)#After_Dunkirk
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline MaxD

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 23 July 17 22:00 BST (UK) »
Rena

As you have seen from the Wiki, our man got away just four days before the evacuation on the west coast finished and four days after the disastrous sinking of the Lancastria.  The evacuation from the beaches at Dunkirk of course takes all the headlines but the "after Dunkirk" does show that there were an awful lot of men who faced nearly the same amount of hardship after Dunkirk was all over as they were effectively chased all the way to Cherbourg and to the west coast.  These were of course not "left on the beach", they were units well outside the Dunkirk perimeter who made their way to the west.

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Rena

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 23 July 17 23:03 BST (UK) »
Rena

As you have seen from the Wiki, our man got away just four days before the evacuation on the west coast finished and four days after the disastrous sinking of the Lancastria.  The evacuation from the beaches at Dunkirk of course takes all the headlines but the "after Dunkirk" does show that there were an awful lot of men who faced nearly the same amount of hardship after Dunkirk was all over as they were effectively chased all the way to Cherbourg and to the west coast.  These were of course not "left on the beach", they were units well outside the Dunkirk perimeter who made their way to the west.

maxD

As the diaries haven't yet been read, I put up that last link (wiki) because I'd spotted mention of the ancestor's units, the RE, etc.posted to the same place/front;   their (non)movement after Dunkirk made even more interesting because of the commands and counter commands of competing officers.   As I used to watch the TV series filmed by Lt-Gen. Brian Horrocks, it reflected the stories he recounted of other competing COs. during WWII..... it's a wonder we won anything.

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline originQuest

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Re: WW2 Service Records
« Reply #26 on: Monday 24 July 17 01:13 BST (UK) »
Thank you again - this really is an education for me!  As I've mentioned previously, I'm often in the Netherlands for work, specially the south, which the 7th Batt, Seaforth Highlanders liberated, so the fact this relative of mine missed this fascinates me.  I might take a drive through France so see where he was stationed - but only after I've read the diaries, of course!