THORNHILL William Henry WALKER Matilda Beechworth 1856-1858 travel?

[dobfarm]

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197297909
Public Notice.
I HEREBY give notice, that after this date I will not be responsible for any DEBTS that may be contracted in my name by my Wife, MATILDA THORNHILL, as she has left her home without my permission or consent.
W. H. THORNHILL.
Three Mile, Beechworth,
February 23rd, 1875.

Seems it was acceptable for Wm to go to South Africa though

Link to record at PROV - little man - 5' 1" but states born  1829 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kg6/

It would appear that Wm emigrated to mine gold at Beechworth and there were several mines named including One Mile, Two Mile and Three Mile.  My gggrandmother's brother was the mining registrar and surveyor during the gold rush era at Beetchworth.  I'll have a look at some of his papers to see anything specific to Three Mile mine.  Papers often mention individual miners.

There are a few items on my resources but of little consequence to the overall picture of Wm H and his wife Matilda.

Cando

Doesn't help in any details  but could explain why there is no record of William H Thornhill and Matilda's passages recorded to NSW - Sheer (or shear ) volume of people emigrating from the UK

(Use to stand in the corner after selling tests at school- a lot    -- )

http://www.sbs.com.au/gold/story.php?storyid=49

[cando]

dobfarm - who said the couple emigrated to the Colony of New South Wales? 

They could have landed at other Colonies [States] and travelled by coastal shipping to Melbourne.

It is often useful to detail information relating to the people of interest....often brickwalls are broken down...and the devil is in the detail.

If the OP wishes to further her research she needs to purchase either a birth certificate for one of the children or Wm's death cert and hope that the informant's knowledge was accurate.

Cando

[cando]

According to the Victorian Inquest Index, Wm H's death was subject of an inquest so there is little reason to purchase his death certificate.  The informant is usually a police constable present at the magisterial inquest and scant information is usually on the death certificate and possibly no time in Australia in each colony [state] would be detailed.

His inquest file has been digitised on PROV.
https://www.prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/inquests-and-other-coronial-records/inquests-deaths-deposition

It would appear that Matilda was not living in the marital home at the time of Wm's death.

Cando

[dobfarm]

Nobody knows how W H Thornhill & wife got to Australia 1856 to 1858 as yet !!, but one looks at anything in leads, reasons why nothing can be found or possibilities that may help find where to look for info with details, when details are non-existent so far, to have  "Devil is in the detail" and hence the reason RC member is posting for help.

One place to try is 'The National Maritime Museum' in Greenwich, London UK holds a lot of records (Logs)on ships with detailed info the commercial/merchant ship staff on board and maybe passengers of that time period.

USA records or shipping records seems a good place to look as a possible route via America to Australia's ports 1856 to 1858

[cando]

One place to try is 'The National Maritime Museum' in Greenwich, London UK holds a lot of records (Logs)on ships with detailed info the commercial/merchant ship staff on board and maybe passengers of that time period.

Well seeing you are living in the UK perhaps you can do that for the OP!!!

Survival rate of passenger records to many of the Australian colonies in that period is not good.    I have a number of ancestors who are not listed on any surviving passenger records that are available in the public arena however I have copies of their diaries detailing their journeys from Scotland, England and Northern Ireland to the Colony of Victoria.

Cando

[dobfarm]

One place to try is 'The National Maritime Museum' in Greenwich, London UK holds a lot of records (Logs)on ships with detailed info the commercial/merchant ship staff on board and maybe passengers of that time period.

Well seeing you are living in the UK perhaps you can do that for the OP!!!

Survival rate of passenger records to many of the Australian colonies in that period is not good.    I have a number of ancestors who are not listed on any surviving passenger records that are available in the public arena however I have copies of their diaries detailing their journeys from Scotland, England and Northern Ireland to the Colony of Victoria.

Cando

I'm afraid I live 250 miles away from London, also an expensive place to go to, by train, car (fuel, parking, congestion charges) using taxi's in London, subsistence and accommodation while there. In fact everything is expensive in London. Having such limited info on W H Thornhill, if OP so chooses this route of research - then really needs contact them direct by mail, email or telephone with any details of what is already known that may help refine for any indication where to start.

All we know here is William and Matilda's marriage date 1856

[majm]

... Doesn't help in any details  but could explain why there is no record of William H Thornhill and Matilda's passages recorded to NSW

I was not aware that the couple were thought to arrive in NSW but I have now spent quite some time searching for any THORNHILL  arriving in NSW 1856 – 1858.    Judith has found the marriage in December 1856  (reply #19, 31 Dec. 1856 Worsborough Church at Darfield) and I agree, no need for passports for passengers moving within the realm of the British Empire. 

So I can confirm that I have diligently searched my offline resources for any sign of the couple arriving in the Colony of New South Wales in 1857-1858.  I have NOT met with success.   Cando has already explained that The Colony of Victoria was hived off from NSW back in 1851. I note that the Colony of Queensland was not hived off from NSW until 1859.   

Re 250 miles …  that would be considered a very short distance to travel if you were a resident in NSW.  The urban sprawl for Sydney covers a much larger geographical area than many other cities around the globe, and each of these large cities have their own unique burdens regarding costs, time, expenses, accommodation etc.   

From Albury on the border of NSW and Vic, to Kingswood NSW (where the NSW State Archives are) is about 600 kms. 
From Boggabilla on the border of NSW and Qld to Kingswood NSW is about 750 kms.
From Broken Hill near the border of NSW and South Australia to Kingswood NSW is about 1100 kms.

Greater Sydney Basin is perhaps around 12,000 km², and I think that’s almost ten times more than London, The population of Sydney is around half that of London. 

Public transport in NSW is umm... well ... It would take me over six hours by public transport to get from my home to the NSW State Archives, and that's not including a walk of more than 1 km from where the bus sets you down to the front doors of the Archives office...  If I were to drive, there's many a tollroad between here and there...  I am sure there’s many RChatters who could share their local knowledge about  their difficulties getting to/from their localities to the Records Office in Melbourne, Victoria. Just as we have read of the difficulties getting to London... these are hurdles ... But those details do not help our OP re the request for help finding William Henry and Matilda THORNHILL's arrival, when there's evidence of them at Beechworth which in 1858 was (and still is) in Victoria.   

 

.... One place to try is 'The National Maritime Museum' in Greenwich, London UK holds a lot of records (Logs)on ships with detailed info the commercial/merchant ship staff on board and maybe passengers of that time period.

Here is the Resources Board for Australia : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
Within that board are sub-boards, including ones for the six colonies which became states in 1901 and the two territories. 

Our OP has not been back online since 24 July, 2017 after joining just two days earlier. 

JM

[dobfarm]

Thank you for the in depth comparisons  between England and NSW of the geographical and topography in travel distances in various examples shown. (Interesting) I agree we are fortunate in the UK when doing our own family history, travel between repositories in various regions is shorter than in Australia in a lot of cases but not all.

Funding burdens regarding costs incurred in travel or subsistence and accommodation to repositories or online expense, or paid for research conducted by archives or by a professional or semi professional researchers is an unknown factor to other members as to an individuals own financial circumstances to afford such burdens in researching their own ancestry.

The OP has already admitted he/she is not one for paying for BMD certificates at first before checking out all other venues of free info available first. (quite rightly)

If members of the general public in Australia or any country or members of RC or any website want to incur high cost helping other people with their personal family history ancestry research- I obviously can not comment on that.  Only I don't incur any high cost for other people's F H research (in answer to member cando)


 I do/did local research of graveyards, libraries, archives in my own town and nearby towns or cities using a OAP free bus pass while going about my own business like shopping for bits and bobs with negligible small cost.

If the OP posts on the London board, a member of Rootschat may?, who has spare time, who may live very local near 'The National Maritime Museum' in Greenwich, London could consider the challenge. 

If W H Thornhill traveled to Australia via the USA he probably would have needed a passport but travel across the USA by wagon train with red Indians about in the tension just prior to the US civil war 1861 and shipping to Australia from the West coast of North America is a unknown factor 

[majm]

May I share the following thread re Passports. 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677387.0

  Even if the passenger manifests have not survived, I find it unlikely that the newspapers would not carry mention of a Merchant's arrival to any port in 1857-58, whether arriving from the UK or from the US of A or from any port anywhere, including Australian seaports. 
  I cannot join the dots between someone being issued a Passport in April 1858 in the UK and the birth registered in Victoria in 1858 BUT EARLIER than April.   
  I see no reason for the newly married couple to take up an alias surname for travel and then to revert to THORNHILL once settled in Victoria (those births in 1858 are clearly indexed as Thornhill).
  I cannot see that William Henry THORNHILL was a Merchant.  At reply #18 Dobfarm notes his father was recorded as a shoemaker on the December 1856 marriage to Matilda.
  I cannot see that a passport was required to travel across continental USA in the 1850s.  I can assure you that in around 1849 that many N.S.Walers rushed to find passage to California, suffering gold fever. 
  They did not need passports to leave NSW or to land in California.  While California did not become a US state until Sept 1850, passports were simply not a normal part of the paperwork trail in that era. 
  In 1851, gold fever struck NSW and Vic.  Passports were not required for arrival or ID once at the gold fields.  Miner's Licences/Rights were the paperwork issues of the day, and many holders were not from localities within the British Empire.   

Here's the link for searching the digitised newspapers via Trove : http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/?q=

While none of this conversation is actively helping to advance our OP's quest, I hope it is of interest to those researching their local histories for their families arriving in search of gold in any of the colonies in Australia in the second half of the 19th century.

JM