Author Topic: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG  (Read 2518 times)

Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,746
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #18 on: Friday 04 August 17 10:05 BST (UK) »
I'm afraid the minutes of the kirk sessions aren't yet accessible more widely.

You have maybe already looked at the Farm Horse Tax records for 1797-98 (available free on-line at scotlandsplaces). It gives the number of liable horses and the tax paid (2/- per animal). If you didn't have a liable horse, your name doesn't appear.

At "Lugtonrigg", Beith:
     Matthew Neilson 1 horse 2/-
     David Muir 1 horse 2/-
     Thomas Wilson 1 horse 2/-

The Kings mentioned in Beith:
     James King Shotts 1 horse 2/-
     John King Giffen Miln 2 horses 4/-
     William King Windyhouse 2 horses 4/-

In only Kings mentioned in the parish of Dunlop:
     Robert King Dunlop 2 horses 4/-
     John King Ryburn 1 horse 2/-

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Retsina

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 05 August 17 18:06 BST (UK) »
Hi John
I'm very grateful to you for your insightful research into the King family history.  I had previously picked up on the 1841 Census with Robert and Janet King in Lugtonridge, but discounted it as unrelated to my family.  However on the 1851 Census if you look lower down the page, there is a Robert King aged 16 living at Laigh Green Farm as a servant.  I wonder if he is Robert and Janet's son?  I'm unsure of the proximity of this farm to Lugtonridge if it's possible?
On the 1801 marriage record you found, does it show the date of birth or ages of Robert and Mary? I had no idea they had 10 children! On the 1861 Census Mary is living with her daughter Jean at Giffen Castle Farm with my great grandfather William Young (son of Ann King) aged 21.  I would dearly love to find his birth record and also the birth record of his father William who may or may not have married Ann King?  Any thoughts you might have would be much appreciated. Thanks so much.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Retsina

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 15
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 05 August 17 18:44 BST (UK) »
Incidentally just an interesting piece of history about Giffen farm and Robert King.  I wonder if the J. Smith might have been Robert's great great grandmother Jean Smith (White)? 

https://canmore.org.uk/site/42183/mains-of-giffen#701714

Offline Rakiura John

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 06 August 17 07:46 BST (UK) »
Retsina, I've sent you a PM. Regards.

Offline Rakiura John

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 06 August 17 22:45 BST (UK) »
Correction to my post on 4 Aug 2017 - at the end of the first paragraph I wrote that Mary White "was widow of James King, Farmer". I should have written "was widow of Robert King, Framer".  :-[

Offline James King

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #23 on: Friday 04 May 18 00:33 BST (UK) »
I believe the Ann King (1816) mentioned in this post is sister to my relation, James King (1802). This would make their parents, Robert King (1782) and Mary White (1782-Thomas White and Jean Smith) common to both searches. Based on anecdotal handwritten notes from my Grandfather, James King (1884? to 1959), there are two items I am looking to confirm: 1) that Robert King's(1782) parents were Robert King and Mary Latta of Gateside, Beith; and 2) to find out what is meant by my grandfathers statement that the King's family history is closely connected to the MacGregor Clan but involves a "troubled past" that is "best forgotten about."
I am curious about what the troubled past might have been. Any ideas how I could find out?

Offline Rakiura John

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 05 May 18 08:01 BST (UK) »
Hi James, welcome aboard. Are you resident in the Beith area?

James King b1802 had two sons that I'm aware of, those two sons being:
Robert - born c1852 (married Mary Neilson; had a son James b1886 at Brownsfield, Inchinnan, Renfrew)
James - b1860 (married Margaret Dinah Main: had a son James b1880 in Dalry, Ayr).
So I suppose your grandfather, James b1884? is either James b1880 or James b1886. Do you know which one?

Re your query 1: I don't think Robert King (father of James b1802) was the son of Robert King & Mary Latta of Beith. ScotlandsPeople has that couple having a Robert c1783, then having further children consistantly, with their last child being born in 1803 which last child they also named Robert which suggests that their first son Robert c1783 had died. And if he died, he couldn't be the Robert who had children with Mary White until 1823.

 I haven't yet been able to identify the parents of the Robert King who married Mary White, with any certainty. But as they named their first son James, and named their second daughter Ann, traditional naming suggests Robert's parents were a James King & Ann. The most likely candidate I've found is the Robert King born 18 Nov 1768, bap 23 Nov 1768, to James King & Ann Fulton in Gree, in the parish of Beith [Beith Parish Record].  Gree (in Beith) is situated just across the Lugton Water from Langton (in Dunlop), where Robert King & Mary White resided when James King b1802 was born. Farming adjacent properties may well have been advantageous for father and son, albeit being separated by a stream.

To complicate matters however, there is another Robert King born 6 Dec 1768, bap 25 Dec 1768, to James King & [no forename] Fulton in Lowgton [presumably Lugton] in the parish of Beith [Dunlop Parish Record]. I wrestled with the possibility that these two records actually relate to the same Robert, but the different birth and baptism dates seem to argue against that - and why would parents have a child baptised twice? Yet the odds must be incredible that two Robert Kings are born within a few weeks of each other in the same parish with fathers both named James King and mothers both named Fulton.

I've not found any connection to the McGregors, but having now been put on notice, I'll certainly bear that connection in mind.

Regards, John

Offline James King

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 05 May 18 17:04 BST (UK) »
John
My Grandfather, James King, came to Canada around 1900 at age 14. He got a job on a cattle boat after getting into trouble at home in Saltcoates. That would make his birth year 1886 as you discovered. We did not know his birth place.
He left everything behind and did not mention anything about his origins until 1938 (according to my father's recollections) when he received an inheritance on the death of his mother, Mary (Neilson). This was a big deal as the money built an addition onto the house and they bought a newer secondhand car. My father was the result of his father's second marriage as his first wife had passed away of Influenza in 1917. I have recently connected with a cousin from the first marriage which has sparked this search.
Grandfather James King had two brothers, Matthew and Robert; two sisters, Jane and Margaret. His grandparents were James King and Margaret (McIntyre); and Matthew Neilson and Jean (Andrew). The great-grandparents he names are Robert King and Mary (White). He talked about Lugton farms and Beith.
My father visited his Aunt Maggie in Saltcoates after his release as prisoner of war at the end of WWII. During that visit, my father was shown the family farm at Lugtonrigg (Lugtonridge). That was where the Latta name was mentioned as being a relation; however, as you also found, I can't connect the dots with any certainty either. There was mention of belonging to Free Church (?).
Thanks for your help. Its all interesting.

Offline Rakiura John

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 1840 Births OPR Beith Ayrshire - YOUNG
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 05 May 18 22:20 BST (UK) »
Hi James

One of the main hurdles in researching Beith relations is that there aren't many pre-1855 Marriage and Death records for that parish. And there were a number of Kings floating around. If it helps to make sense of them, here is a brief summary of what I've found:
James King & Ann Fulton had 4 children:
Margaret (born 1765 at Gree)
John (born 1767 at Gree, married Mary Cunningham, it seems he took over Gree from his father)
Robert (born 1768 at Gree, married Mary White)
Isobel (born 1770 at Low Gree)

John b1767 & Mary Cunningham had 8 children:
James (born 1810, he might be the James at Burnhouse, Joiner in 1841 Census)
John (born 1812, married Frances Cunningham, he in Dunlop Village in 1841 & 1851 Census)
Robert (born 1814)
Margaret (born 1817)
Andrew (born 1822)
Jean (born 1825, married Archibald Stewart)
William (born 1829)
David (born 1831)

Robert b1768 (possibly) & Mary White had 10 children:
James (born 1802 at Langton, married Margaret McIntyre)
Thomas (born 1804, married Agnes Frame, he inherited Giffen Castle Farm from his uncle Thomas White, died 1860)
Jane (born 1806, spinster, died 1883)
John (born 1809, married Elizabeth Doak, died 1894)
Robert (born 1812)
David (born 1814, died as infant)
Ann (born 1816, mother of William Young)
David (born 1818, went to St Mary's, Perth, Ontario, Canada, married Elizabeth, died there 1877)
Hugh (born 1821)
Mary (born 1823)

James, when your father visited Beith, was he by any chance made aware of any King family headstones? These are a possible source of info which I haven't yet managed to get access to.
Regards
John