Author Topic: William and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)  (Read 1053 times)

Offline MacGrigor

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,951
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:14 BST (UK) »
That's certainly intriguing. Genealogy can be a very difficult business in terms of research, but can also dig up all sorts of unimaginable things. For one of my great-grandmothers, she was the only child to survive infancy. In both the 1871 and 1881 census, there are different children that tragically died young. Nowadays it is difficult to imagine the trauma that our forebears went through.

However, regardless of the legitimacy or illegitimacy of William's older sister, he was born a year after his parents married, with the same maiden name that his mother had had in 1864. One set of my great-great-grandparents had a child in 1871, but actually married in 1873. In this case also, my ancestor was born legitimate. I think that it was probably a mistake, but they stuck together for appearance's sake in both cases.
Dead-end ancestors:

William Cartwright, d. 1910, Wigston
Lewis Lipman, b. ca. 1798 (son of John Lipman, late of Glasgow)
Simon McGrigor/McGregor/MacGregor, b. ca. 1789, m. 1811, Fodderty, d. 1859, Fodderty (parents Alexander MacGregor and Mary Grant)
William Sands, b. ca. 1816, m. 1837, Clerkenwell, d. 1863, St. Luke's
Jesse Thorogood, b. ca. 1751, m. 1777, Shalford, d. 1826, Shalford

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline iluleah

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,548
  • Zeya who has a plastic bag fetish
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:22 BST (UK) »
Yes a different era, people tended to marry as it was 'shameful' for the family for them not to.
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline MacGrigor

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,951
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:23 BST (UK) »
Exactly. In fact, I suspect that the subjects this thread may not have been married. There was a rumour in my family, but nothing substantiated.
Dead-end ancestors:

William Cartwright, d. 1910, Wigston
Lewis Lipman, b. ca. 1798 (son of John Lipman, late of Glasgow)
Simon McGrigor/McGregor/MacGregor, b. ca. 1789, m. 1811, Fodderty, d. 1859, Fodderty (parents Alexander MacGregor and Mary Grant)
William Sands, b. ca. 1816, m. 1837, Clerkenwell, d. 1863, St. Luke's
Jesse Thorogood, b. ca. 1751, m. 1777, Shalford, d. 1826, Shalford

Offline iluleah

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,548
  • Zeya who has a plastic bag fetish
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:33 BST (UK) »
William and Ellen?

Or maybe married later in life. One set of my great grandparents stated on the 1911 that they were married for 20 odd years and I searched for their marriage for years and accidentally found it while looking for a marriage in parish records of one of their daughters. He was previously married and they waited for her to die, 3 months after they married presumeably as it was too expensive to divorce
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline MacGrigor

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,951
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:40 BST (UK) »
Yes, William and Ellen. William died in 1910, but his wife lived another 40 years, so I don't think they would have had time for a formal wedding, if they weren't married.

Gosh, yes of course it would have been extremely expensive to divorce back then. Even if any of my ancestors were born illegitimate, I've yet to find one who grew up with only one parent, which makes me proud, and I hope they stuck together because of love rather than societal expectations.
Dead-end ancestors:

William Cartwright, d. 1910, Wigston
Lewis Lipman, b. ca. 1798 (son of John Lipman, late of Glasgow)
Simon McGrigor/McGregor/MacGregor, b. ca. 1789, m. 1811, Fodderty, d. 1859, Fodderty (parents Alexander MacGregor and Mary Grant)
William Sands, b. ca. 1816, m. 1837, Clerkenwell, d. 1863, St. Luke's
Jesse Thorogood, b. ca. 1751, m. 1777, Shalford, d. 1826, Shalford

Offline iluleah

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,548
  • Zeya who has a plastic bag fetish
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:51 BST (UK) »
So is this William in 1881?

Name    W F Cartwright
Event Type    Census
Event Date    1881
Event Place    Bathley, Nottinghamshire, England
Registration District    Southwell
Residence Note    Village Street
Gender    Male
Age    14
Marital Status (Original)    Single
Occupation    Farm Serv
Relationship to Head of Household    Son
Birth Year (Estimated)    1867
Birthplace    Norwell, Nottinghamshire, England
Page Number    27
Registration Number    RG11
Piece/Folio    3372/31
Affiliate Record Type    Household

Ann Cartwright    Head    F    51    Ossington, Nottinghamshire, England
Emma Cartwright    Daughter    F    20    Norwell, Nottinghamshire, England
Charles Cartwright    Son    M    17    Norwell, Nottinghamshire, England
W F Cartwright    Son    M    14    Norwell, Nottinghamshire, England
Ann E Cartwright    Daughter    F    12    Bathley, Nottinghamshire, England
Rosa Cartwright    Grand Daughter    F    12    Bathley, Nottinghamshire, England


The Cartwrights are an old family going back centuries in this area ( not saying it is the same Cartwright family) however when I saw Ossington I suspect it could be the same family.
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/tts/tts1909/cartwrights/cartwright1.htm
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend

Offline MacGrigor

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,951
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:57 BST (UK) »
That's William F., the one I got mixed up. His mother is Ann, formerly Lambert. William disappears for the 1881 Census. He wasn't involved in farm work either - he was a chimney sweep, which is just about as working-class as my family gets, the bulk being agricultural labourers.
Dead-end ancestors:

William Cartwright, d. 1910, Wigston
Lewis Lipman, b. ca. 1798 (son of John Lipman, late of Glasgow)
Simon McGrigor/McGregor/MacGregor, b. ca. 1789, m. 1811, Fodderty, d. 1859, Fodderty (parents Alexander MacGregor and Mary Grant)
William Sands, b. ca. 1816, m. 1837, Clerkenwell, d. 1863, St. Luke's
Jesse Thorogood, b. ca. 1751, m. 1777, Shalford, d. 1826, Shalford

Offline MacGrigor

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,951
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 19:59 BST (UK) »
As for the history, I can get back to John Cartwright, born 1796 in Caunton. His parents were John and Mary, although I can find nothing on them. He married Mary Hallam of Norwell in 1812, in Norwell. She was born in 1793.
Dead-end ancestors:

William Cartwright, d. 1910, Wigston
Lewis Lipman, b. ca. 1798 (son of John Lipman, late of Glasgow)
Simon McGrigor/McGregor/MacGregor, b. ca. 1789, m. 1811, Fodderty, d. 1859, Fodderty (parents Alexander MacGregor and Mary Grant)
William Sands, b. ca. 1816, m. 1837, Clerkenwell, d. 1863, St. Luke's
Jesse Thorogood, b. ca. 1751, m. 1777, Shalford, d. 1826, Shalford

Offline iluleah

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,548
  • Zeya who has a plastic bag fetish
    • View Profile
Re: William F and Ellen Cartwright (née Dobson)
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 25 July 17 20:22 BST (UK) »
Sounds like you need a visit to the area....... Peter used to be the vicar at St Laurence Church ( not sure about now) not sure who was /is Carlton on Trent St Marys, or if Peter covered that too ( or not) he did cover St Andrews in Caunton
Leicestershire:Chamberlain, Dakin, Wilkinson, Moss, Cook, Welland, Dobson, Roper,Palfreman, Squires, Hames, Goddard, Topliss, Twells,Bacon.
Northamps:Sykes, Harris, Rice,Knowles.
Rutland:Clements, Dalby, Osbourne, Durance, Smith,Christian, Royce, Richardson,Oakham, Dewey,Newbold,Cox,Chamberlaine,Brow, Cooper, Bloodworth,Clarke
Durham/Yorks:Woodend, Watson,Parker, Dowser
Suffolk/Norfolk:Groom, Coleman, Kemp, Barnard, Alden,Blomfield,Smith,Howes,Knight,Kett,Fryston
Lincolnshire:Clements, Woodend