John born 1840 Repost

[SelDen]

I think it very unlikely that a joiner would also be an enginewright. Completely different occupations and I think this waves a red flag that needs to be investigated. It is very easy to get Robson families mixed up as they are very numerous in Durham & Northumberland.

I would suggest you take a couple of steps back to firm ground, before moving forward again. If you are absolutely sure you have the right marriage certificate, and the father on that is named John and he is a joiner then have another look in the census entries, working back carefully, checking the options.

Just as an example (because I haven't traced backwards as you can do this yourself), if you look at the 1851 census HO107/2393 folio 371 p8 there is a John Robson, Cabinet Maker, living in Hetton le Hole with his wife Margaret, daughters Mary & Isabella & son John aged 12. Isabella was born in Hetton le Hole so the family may have been there for several years by 1851. Although the two older children were born in Newcastle, in later years John may not have remembered this and may have put his birth down as Hetton Le Hole because that is where he spent his childhood.

I can accept a cabinet maker working as/being described as a joiner & vice versa but it would be very unusual at this date for someone to completely change their occupations to another skilled but unrelated trade such as an enginewright.

[ADR68]

I think it very unlikely that a joiner would also be an enginewright. Completely different occupations and I think this waves a red flag that needs to be investigated. It is very easy to get Robson families mixed up as they are very numerous in Durham & Northumberland.

I would suggest you take a couple of steps back to firm ground, before moving forward again. If you are absolutely sure you have the right marriage certificate, and the father on that is named John and he is a joiner then have another look in the census entries, working back carefully, checking the options.

Just as an example (because I haven't traced backwards as you can do this yourself), if you look at the 1851 census HO107/2393 folio 371 p8 there is a John Robson, Cabinet Maker, living in Hetton le Hole with his wife Margaret, daughters Mary & Isabella & son John aged 12. Isabella was born in Hetton le Hole so the family may have been there for several years by 1851. Although the two older children were born in Newcastle, in later years John may not have remembered this and may have put his birth down as Hetton Le Hole because that is where he spent his childhood.

I can accept a cabinet maker working as/being described as a joiner & vice versa but it would be very unusual at this date for someone to completely change their occupations to another skilled but unrelated trade such as an enginewright.

Thanks for your input, on the birth and baptisms certs of John siblings there father John is  Joiner, I think John snr is a Jack of all trades, on one of his daughters marriages he is a waggonwright and another he is a contractor, on his death cert he is a Contractor, I am sure I have the right family, I don't why my line was not Registered or baptised.
Regards
Allan

[JenB]

This is the previous thread on this (assume it is the only one and the John Robson died 1865 does not add to this)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=766439.msg6184420#msg6184420

I hope Allan won't mind me posting this, some links to other threads, but there are many others - Allan has been doggedly pursuing this search for John Robson for many years.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=553768.msg4066755#msg4066755 (scroll to bottom of original posting)

[SelDen]

I haven't read all the many threads but the ones I have read all assume that Allan's ancestor John Robson is the child in the household with parents John and Eleanor Robson.

Allan may have good reasons for connecting his John Robson with this family - perhaps one of the siblings was a witness on the marriage certificate? Perhaps there is some other information linking
Allan's ancestor with the John and Eleanor family other than census entries with a child of the right age? A will? If so it would be helpful to know what this info is. If it was mentioned in the four or five threads I read then I did not see it.

If I were able to sit down at a table with Allan I would still want to start with his earliest certain ancestor - this may be the John who marries age 22 (am on my Tablet and will lose this post if I switch screens to check the age and date Allan gave).

Allan, it may be a bit tedious from your perspective but in the interests of allowing people to take a fresh look at this could you give the full details of all the the marriage certificate including church, location, fathers' names and occupations and the witnesses?

[ADR68]

I haven't read all the many threads but the ones I have read all assume that Allan's ancestor John Robson is the child in the household with parents John and Eleanor Robson.

Allan may have good reasons for connecting his John Robson with this family - perhaps one of the siblings was a witness on the marriage certificate? Perhaps there is some other information linking
Allan's ancestor with the John and Eleanor family other than census entries with a child of the right age? A will? If so it would be helpful to know what this info is. If it was mentioned in the four or five threads I read then I did not see it.

If I were able to sit down at a table with Allan I would still want to start with his earliest certain ancestor - this may be the John who marries age 22 (am on my Tablet and will lose this post if I switch screens to check the age and date Allan gave).

Allan, it may be a bit tedious from your perspective but in the interests of allowing people to take a fresh look at this could you give the full details of all the the marriage certificate including church, location, fathers' names and occupations and the witnesses?

Once again thanks for you interest, John Marriage as follows 15th Jan 1860 , John Robson age 22 seaman, Married Eleanor Ann Hall age 26, John address is 5 South Nicholson St Sunderland, Eleanor lived at 20 Sussex St Sunderland, John's Father John Robson is a joiner, the witnesses were not relatives but also loved at 22 Sussex St, I am sure John lied about his age he8 was not 22 he was more like 20 according  to the 1841/51 census, on the 1861 Census he said he was 23,
His first son was Douglas born 15th Dec 1860, he has Brother Douglas who was 1835 and was also a Seaman,  his Grandmother was Jane Douglas her maiden name, to this Day the Douglas name is still in the family so I have deffo the right line.

[SelDen]

Hello Allan

I thought I should reply to eat humble pie Looking over the two families and where they end up I can see why you think the two are connected. The widowed Eleanor Robson and some of her children, including Armstrong who is described both as a sailor and as paralysed, are later on also in Bishopwearmouth, which would be a bit of coincidence if there was no connection.

I did see entries for Douglas Robsons in Australia & a 28 year old Douglas Robson was an AB seaman on a ship going to Australia in 1860. Maybe he stayed over there? I could not see an obvious record for John Robson in the merchant service records (though Douglas is there) but did see the newspaper report of a sad train accident involving a John Robson - I presume you have a death cert which relates to the consequences of this incident.

Anyway, good luck with the search.

[ADR68]

Hello Allan

I thought I should reply to eat humble pie Looking over the two families and where they end up I can see why you think the two are connected. The widowed Eleanor Robson and some of her children, including Armstrong who is described both as a sailor and as paralysed, are later on also in Bishopwearmouth, which would be a bit of coincidence if there was no connection.

I did see entries for Douglas Robsons in Australia & a 28 year old Douglas Robson was an AB seaman on a ship going to Australia in 1860. Maybe he stayed over there? I could not see an obvious record for John Robson in the merchant service records (though Douglas is there) but did see the newspaper report of a sad train accident involving a John Robson - I presume you have a death cert which relates to the consequences of this incident.

Anyway, good luck with the search.

Many thanks for your reply, yes the talk in the family was of the accidental death of John in 1865 by then he had moved to Hartlepool, he was on a training ship the 'HMS Active, like you I have never found any of his Merchant Navy records, yes I have his death  cert it states his age at 26, the Sunderland Parish records say 25 which I think is right,  bottom line is, why was he never registered at birth or baptised, Douglas his brother is another mystery what happened to him.

Regards
Allan