Author Topic: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex  (Read 3327 times)

Offline croz

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Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« on: Monday 31 July 17 20:20 BST (UK) »
Richard Ragless married Mary Penfold in Angmering 3 Sept 1779 - confirmed in parish records. I have, up to now, believed this Mary Penfold, born 1749 in Steyning, Sussex was a daughter of Richard Penfold (Surgeon and Apothecary of Steyning - 1715-1785) and Charity Penfold (nee Marchant), married 4 Augist 1747 in Edburton, Sussex. FamilySearch.org certainly has a record of Mary Penfold christening, daughter of Richard Penfold and Charity in 1749.
Neither Richard nor Charity's will, however (proved in 1785 and 1800 respectively) makes any mention of a daughter Mary. Both list 5 children (2 sons, 3 daughters) and acknowledge a 6th (a daughter) who had predeceased them. I believe ...if I follow the FamilySearch.org information, that they did in fact have 10 children, a son died in infancy but two other daughters, apart from MAry, are unaccounted for. The wills of two of their daughters, however (Anne and Elizabeth), specifically refer to a "late sister" Mary but suggest her married name was Clement or Clements.

I realise there were a large number of Penfolds in this part  of Sussex but I wonder if anyone has researched this particular branch and can shed any light on why "Mary" seems to figure in the wills of two sisters, but not in the wills of her parents  ?

I am coming to the conclusion that "my" Mary Penfold (5x Great Grandmother) may not be the daughter of Richard the Surgeon and Apothecary..... :-\
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline sillgen

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 16 August 17 09:18 BST (UK) »
How do you know Mary's date and place of birth?

Offline croz

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 August 17 17:59 BST (UK) »
Information came from a contact via the Fulham and Hammersmith Historical Society who was also researching the Ragless, Penfold and Morland lines and with whom I  share a common ancestry.

Sarah Ann Ragless was my g-g-g grandmother and married John Morland (see my other posts on this forum) in 1815. My contact suggested Sarah Ann Ragless' mother was Mary Penfold born 1749, Steyning, Sussex. I have been looking into this Mary Penfold's ancestry ...hence my question and probable confusion !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline Stovepipe

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 01:30 BST (UK) »
Did Richard and Charity move to Angmering after Mary's baptism? Brides tended to marry in their home parish, so without that move I would have expected Mary to have married in Steyning.

The Steyning Mary would have been at least 30 years old at the time of the Angmering marriage. There were at least three or four Penfold families baptising children in Angmering twenty or so years before, thus supplying other candidates for the marriage. I can't find a Mary to easily fit the bill (although there was one baptised in 1742, so even older than your Steyning Mary) but the records may not be complete.

I think your doubt about the identification of the Steyning Mary with the woman married in Angmering is well-founded. My first move would be to try and find either a burial or marriage in Steyning to account for her.
Census information is Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline sillgen

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 08:44 BST (UK) »
A Mary Penfold married Arnold Wise in Steyning in 1771.  He is from Gosport in Hampshire.

Offline croz

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 13:10 BST (UK) »
A Mary Penfold married Arnold Wise in Steyning in 1771.  He is from Gosport in Hampshire.

That must be a different Mary - there is no doubt that the Mary Penfold I seek was married to Richard Ragless in Angmering in 1779. What I can't yet work out is her ancestry so I guess I am looking, as Stovepipe suggests,  for a Mary Penfold born in Angmering sometime in the 1750-1760 window, who doesn't seem to be the Mary Penfold who was daughter of Richard the apothecary and Charity ...(and who probably married someone called Clement or Clements....not Ragless).
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline sillgen

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 13:19 BST (UK) »
I think your doubt about the identification of the Steyning Mary with the woman married in Angmering is well-founded. My first move would be to try and find either a burial or marriage in Steyning to account for her.
I was trying to follow this suggestion.

Offline croz

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 14:06 BST (UK) »
Apologies...I wasn't paying proper attention. I think that the Mary Penfold I was originally following married a Clement or Clements, based on the passing references in Richard the apothecary's other daughters' wills....to their "late sister Mary". The lack of reference to her in her parents' wills is intriguing but probably a puzzle for someone else, as I don't think she is "my" Mary !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ragless and Penfold families - Angmering Sussex
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 29 August 17 14:44 BST (UK) »
Richard Ragless married Mary Penfold in Angmering 3 Sept 1779
By banns. Both of the parish.
Witnessed by Henry Penfold and Thos Ragless (the latter was a regular). All signed.

Only two subsequent Mary Ragless burials in Angmering seem to be indexed.
One in 1799, and one in 1823 (age 81). No burial of Richard there?